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14 Mar 2019 19:45 #335622 by Br. John
The Gift of Insults

~ Zen Story, Author Unknown

There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him.
One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent. He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move.

Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior's challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind. But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed.

Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. "How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?"

"If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it," the master replied, "to whom does the gift belong?"

Founder of The Order
~
I am the Master Cylinder and I live on the moon.
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14 Mar 2019 19:45 #335623 by ren
That's not how it works, you have to supply the justice :whistle:

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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14 Mar 2019 19:54 #335626 by Gisteron
For all the ones pretending like this is an innocent public discussion about the content of the lyrics rather than a personal jab at anyone, here is a quick reminder from the original post:

Br. John wrote: I presented this to someone and they don't know what it means. Would anyone like to help them?

I'm not saying Arisaig couldn't have let it go on and make the confrontation in private, nor am I saying that no fruitful discourse can arise around the quote. I'm just saying it's silly pretending like it is not entirely transparent what the intentions were here.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Arisaig
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14 Mar 2019 19:57 #335627 by Carlos.Martinez3
Let’s take a moment to stop pls and pause from the “you are “and “you are nots.”


When interacting with others always bear in mind RESPECT:

R - take Responsibility for what you say and feel without blaming others
E - use Empathetic listening
S - be Sensitive to differences in communication styles
P - Ponder what you read and feel before you speak
E - Examine your own assumptions and perceptions
C - be Civil in your interactions with others
T - Trust ambiguity, because it can be difficult to communicate meaning
Cont ...
TotJO is a place for spiritual enlightenment, self discovery and discussion of many varied and wide ranging topics. Here at TotJO we debate arguments not personalities and ideas instead of people.

Everyone makes mistake and it is not simply a case of one breach of the rules and your account is suspended.The people for whom this rule applies are those who are persistent and do so in a flagrant manner, even after unofficial and official warnings about it.

It demonstrates negative traits in an individual namely disrespect for fellow users and lack of control of oneself. 'Heat of the moment' is not a viable excuse, for as Jedi one must possess more control.

So, please think about what you have typed before sending. Show your respect and consideration for your fellow Temple members by simply maintaining the self-restraint to not swear. As it is much easier to control this behaviour when typing than it is in verbal conversation, there really is no acceptable excuse.

www.templeofthejediorder.org/47-help/679-termsofuseandrules

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
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The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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14 Mar 2019 19:58 #335628 by Arisaig

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Let’s take a moment to stop pls and pause from the “you are “and “you are nots.”


When interacting with others always bear in mind RESPECT:

R - take Responsibility for what you say and feel without blaming others
E - use Empathetic listening
S - be Sensitive to differences in communication styles
P - Ponder what you read and feel before you speak
E - Examine your own assumptions and perceptions
C - be Civil in your interactions with others
T - Trust ambiguity, because it can be difficult to communicate meaning
Cont ...
TotJO is a place for spiritual enlightenment, self discovery and discussion of many varied and wide ranging topics. Here at TotJO we debate arguments not personalities and ideas instead of people.

Everyone makes mistake and it is not simply a case of one breach of the rules and your account is suspended.The people for whom this rule applies are those who are persistent and do so in a flagrant manner, even after unofficial and official warnings about it.

It demonstrates negative traits in an individual namely disrespect for fellow users and lack of control of oneself. 'Heat of the moment' is not a viable excuse, for as Jedi one must possess more control.

So, please think about what you have typed before sending. Show your respect and consideration for your fellow Temple members by simply maintaining the self-restraint to not swear. As it is much easier to control this behaviour when typing than it is in verbal conversation, there really is no acceptable excuse.

www.templeofthejediorder.org/47-help/679-termsofuseandrules


I'd like Br. John to RESPECT anyone and be able to respond with his own words. But he's made it clear that will never be the case. RESPECT is not given freely. It is earned.

Sword of the Jedi
Knight of the Temple of the Jedi Order
The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx
Jedi Battlemaster

~ IP I AP I DQS I Knight I Personal ~
Training Master: Zenchi
Apprentice: Open for Application
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14 Mar 2019 20:02 #335629 by ren

Arisaig wrote:

ren wrote: That's not how it works, you have to supply the justice :whistle:


Good thing I don't care how you interpret being a Jedi, not being one yourself...


Jediism was my religion long before you claimed it to be yours. Little more than a wild claim it would seem. This sure is one cheap personal attack.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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14 Mar 2019 20:07 #335630 by Arisaig
PUBLIC STATEMENT

So, Br. John and I never talk. Last time he sent me a PM was over a year ago, and it was a link to "Become the Force". That's it. We aren't buddy buddy.

So yes, I was confused as to why he was randomly sending me a clip of lyrics from a "meh" rock and roll song. Was he trying to establish a bridge? Was he responding to something? I was open to talking.

He ignored me. 7 Hours eclipsed before this gem of a thread popped up. He still, as of writing this, does not respond via PM. Did he forget that function exists suddenly? We will never know.

And even now, he elects to use video clips and comic panels as responses. He seems to be unable to speak outside of things already said in pop culture. And I'm fine with using quotes. But when asked a direct question, its not hard to answer in your own words. Hell, its prolly easier than scouring the web for the 'perfect quote'.

This entire exchange has been disheartening. In both leadership, specifically the two major offenders here. But also in the fact I was told to calm down. Anyone who knows me knows I am one thing. Calm. I got stressed at work the other day, and my coworkers had never seen me like that. I enjoy being calm. Its one of my favourite activities.

However, everyone assumed I was being overly brash and unbecoming of a Jedi. Many people that haven't talked to me, really talked to me. I am, and I will grant you this, annoyed af. Br. John inspired ZERO confidence in me before I became a Knight, and this only served to cement that. I thought, foolish me, that perhaps he was extending an olive branch. I want to help this Temple. I really do. Anyone who knows me knows its my goal to further Jediism and the Jedi Path. Perhaps Br. John wised up and realised he could use that drive to better this place.

I WAS WRONG.

Thank you, Gist, for calling it as it is. And thank you Ros, for being willing to mediate. But mediation requires both parties being willing. I am. Are you, John?

We will see.

May the Force continue to guide you.

Sword of the Jedi
Knight of the Temple of the Jedi Order
The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx
Jedi Battlemaster

~ IP I AP I DQS I Knight I Personal ~
Training Master: Zenchi
Apprentice: Open for Application
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14 Mar 2019 20:07 #335631 by ZealotX

Arisaig wrote:

ren wrote: That's not how it works, you have to supply the justice :whistle:


Good thing I don't care how you interpret being a Jedi, not being one yourself...


oh no. That was an almost perfect recreation of the parable of the debt collector. Ren may not be a Jedi but ren sees you insulting the Jedi master and demanding that he engage with you publicly. And the thing is... people looking on do not necessarily see it the way you do. It looks to me like Bro. John is trying to teach you something but you refuse to see it that way and are instead insulted by the lesson.

I've been in debates before where I looked just as bad as the other guy. I let the other guy access my emotions and I responded out of my emotions and even though I thought I was making great points what many people saw, wasn't that I was right, but that I was reactionary and upset.

You are a good debater. We don't always agree but I can honestly say that I respect both you and your journey. And I feel like if I were in your shoes you would probably recognize my reactions and check me. You're upset because Bro John is not engaging you in the way that you want him to but if you were fighting an opponent in real life there's no requirement that they attack a certain way. And maybe they just sit there and wait to deflect your attacks because they view YOU as the aggressor.

I'm just telling you what I see. And it looks like Bro John took a page from one of the old martial arts masters (the ones with ridiculously long eyebrows) fighting a student with some kind of reed with only enough movement to repel the student's attacks. In my opinion Bro John uses quotes the same way Jet Li uses wushu. It's a style. And he's saying only what he thinks he needs to say. And that's a teachable moment for me because I need to say more with less. But that's because of my own need to get the person to understand what I'm trying to convey rather than them being responsible for their own understanding. With all due respect, I have only gained respect for Bro John from this exchange. If you set aside your emotions you may understand why.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Neaj Pa Bol, Carlos.Martinez3
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14 Mar 2019 20:08 - 14 Mar 2019 20:09 #335632 by Arisaig

ren wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

ren wrote: That's not how it works, you have to supply the justice :whistle:


Good thing I don't care how you interpret being a Jedi, not being one yourself...


Jediism was my religion long before you claimed it to be yours. Little more than a wild claim it would seem. This sure is one cheap personal attack.


This ain't my religion, bud. and note, I revoked that statement because I knew it to be low. Even you deserve some sort of respect, so I removed it. Thanks for dragging it back into the light...

Sword of the Jedi
Knight of the Temple of the Jedi Order
The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx
Jedi Battlemaster

~ IP I AP I DQS I Knight I Personal ~
Training Master: Zenchi
Apprentice: Open for Application
Last edit: 14 Mar 2019 20:09 by Arisaig.
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14 Mar 2019 20:11 #335633 by Arisaig

ZealotX wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

ren wrote: That's not how it works, you have to supply the justice :whistle:


Good thing I don't care how you interpret being a Jedi, not being one yourself...


oh no. That was an almost perfect recreation of the parable of the debt collector. Ren may not be a Jedi but ren sees you insulting the Jedi master and demanding that he engage with you publicly. And the thing is... people looking on do not necessarily see it the way you do. It looks to me like Bro. John is trying to teach you something but you refuse to see it that way and are instead insulted by the lesson.

I've been in debates before where I looked just as bad as the other guy. I let the other guy access my emotions and I responded out of my emotions and even though I thought I was making great points what many people saw, wasn't that I was right, but that I was reactionary and upset.

You are a good debater. We don't always agree but I can honestly say that I respect both you and your journey. And I feel like if I were in your shoes you would probably recognize my reactions and check me. You're upset because Bro John is not engaging you in the way that you want him to but if you were fighting an opponent in real life there's no requirement that they attack a certain way. And maybe they just sit there and wait to deflect your attacks because they view YOU as the aggressor.

I'm just telling you what I see. And it looks like Bro John took a page from one of the old martial arts masters (the ones with ridiculously long eyebrows) fighting a student with some kind of reed with only enough movement to repel the student's attacks. In my opinion Bro John uses quotes the same way Jet Li uses wushu. It's a style. And he's saying only what he thinks he needs to say. And that's a teachable moment for me because I need to say more with less. But that's because of my own need to get the person to understand what I'm trying to convey rather than them being responsible for their own understanding. With all due respect, I have only gained respect for Bro John from this exchange. If you set aside your emotions you may understand why.


You see, I wasn't expecting an attack. I was expecting an olive branch.

Disappointing, as usual, but I expected more.

Sword of the Jedi
Knight of the Temple of the Jedi Order
The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx
Jedi Battlemaster

~ IP I AP I DQS I Knight I Personal ~
Training Master: Zenchi
Apprentice: Open for Application
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