The human soul

Inspire by another topic, I thought this was a big enough question in itself to explore here.

What are your thoughts on the human soul? Does it exist? Doesn’t it? If it does? What does the soul “include” (personality, memory, etc)? Where does it reside? Do non-humans (animals, trees) have one? Do inert beings (mountains, for instance) have one? Have you had any experiences that have given you evidence for the probability of the human soul?

Manu wrote: Does it exist?

It does for some and not for others :ohmy: :laugh: ... as a belief and/or experience I suppose. It's obviously a good one for Jedi to have if they partial to including the movies, and it is something within my working models of the Force as I have had enough positive hits with it to have kept it in my efforts. Is it really real.... its just another one of these examples of asking for physical proof of something said to be non-physical, and probably a sort of category mistake. But for me illusion is not a dirty word on its own, and so belief need not extend into objective reality for it to have purpose.

I understand the conventional idea of the soul to be related to what we understand to be consciousness combined with our ego-identity, like each of our individual identities and awareness is powered by some kind of "spiritual program" conceived by a programmer ("God").

I find myself believing that at least this idea of a soul is a superstitious explanation for our individual identities (ie. "why am I 'me' and not someone else?").

As for what could be a more accurate idea for this, I'm not sure but I'm mostly inclined to refer to writings of Carl Jung for a more psychological angle on this.

This isn't an answer to Manu's questions but I would encourage anyone interested in this topic to watch this talk by Dr. Iain McGilchrist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ryt_dCHt5o&t=256s

This is the music from the section muted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSNot2pen7Q

It generated quite a bit of discussion in the press:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/03/science-soul-philosophy
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/07/soul-criticism-andrew-brown-science-self-knowledge

Some notes here:
http://www.markvernon.com/what-happened-to-the-soul

Does the soul exist?

Religions all over the world have discovered it, disconnected from each other. They usually see it as a method advancing past this corporeal realm.

As a Jedi... Well, to quote... 'luminous Briggs we are are. Not this crude matter'. The soul is a conduit through which we feel the Force. It generates thay energy, that tension. When it is removed, the energy it gives leaves, and the being it was within dies.

It is life, energy, being. Things without it are a shadow of their former self (think a corpse lying in a casket, or a Christmas tree in February)...they were once beautiful and what we loved, but no longer. Love, true love, comes through the Force. We don't love the body. We love the spirit, the soul, the Force signature that is the person or creature it is connected to. It resonates with us, brightens our path.

For myself, as a Jedi, that is what a soul is. I've seen it, in my projection practises. People glowing like stars, but all interconnected, a Web of light between us all. We are just conduits through which the Force enacts itself on the World, balancing itself, and gives us our spirit.

Arisaig wrote: Does the soul exist?

Religions all over the world have discovered it, disconnected from each other. They usually see it as a method advancing past this corporeal realm.

Let's say they have asserted it. We wouldn't have this discussion if they hadn't, because nothing else would have us think that there might be any such thing. This is, incidentally, the one thing religions generally have in common. Not all of them assert any gods, but all of them do assert that some essence of self exists, separable at least in concept from the physical body, and often able to survive its demise.

But no, we know for as certain as we know anything at all that there not just isn't, but really cannot be any such thing as a soul or a spirit or a life force of some kind that actually makes any real difference whatsoever. We can speak of them as figures of speech, as metaphors, concepts to help us convey how we feel about ourselves, each other, the world around us and our place in it, or to help us appreciate all of those things. But there is at this point no gap in our knowledge big enough for any real souls to actually be hiding in still. We know pretty much for a fact that there aren't.

Gisteron wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Does the soul exist?

Religions all over the world have discovered it, disconnected from each other. They usually see it as a method advancing past this corporeal realm.

Let's say they have asserted it. We wouldn't have this discussion if they hadn't, because nothing else would have us think that there might be any such thing. This is, incidentally, the one thing religions generally have in common. Not all of them assert any gods, but all of them do assert that some essence of self exists, separable at least in concept from the physical body, and often able to survive its demise.

But no, we know for as certain as we know anything at all that there not just isn't, but really cannot be any such thing as a soul or a spirit or a life force of some kind that actually makes any real difference whatsoever. We can speak of them as figures of speech, as metaphors, concepts to help us convey how we feel about ourselves, each other, the world around us and our place in it, or to help us appreciate all of those things. But there is at this point no gap in our knowledge big enough for any real souls to actually be hiding in still. We know pretty much for a fact that there aren't.

Yes, much in the same way we speak in metaphors and such about the Big Bang.

Arisaig wrote:

Gisteron wrote:

Arisaig wrote: Does the soul exist?

Religions all over the world have discovered it, disconnected from each other. They usually see it as a method advancing past this corporeal realm.

Let's say they have asserted it. We wouldn't have this discussion if they hadn't, because nothing else would have us think that there might be any such thing. This is, incidentally, the one thing religions generally have in common. Not all of them assert any gods, but all of them do assert that some essence of self exists, separable at least in concept from the physical body, and often able to survive its demise.

But no, we know for as certain as we know anything at all that there not just isn't, but really cannot be any such thing as a soul or a spirit or a life force of some kind that actually makes any real difference whatsoever. We can speak of them as figures of speech, as metaphors, concepts to help us convey how we feel about ourselves, each other, the world around us and our place in it, or to help us appreciate all of those things. But there is at this point no gap in our knowledge big enough for any real souls to actually be hiding in still. We know pretty much for a fact that there aren't.

Yes, much in the same way we speak in metaphors and such about the Big Bang.

Barring the tiny exception that we don't speak of the Big Bang like that at all, yes, entirely the same way.

I used to be visited on a weekly basis by an old man, a very kind and learned man, who was a Jehovah’s Witness. We met for about an hour a week, and he would talk to me about his religion. One of the things I was surprised to learn is that Jehova’s Witness do not believe in Hell, nor do they believe in the existence of a soul. He explained how the original scripture is mistranslated as “soul” and that the idea was added via Helenistic influence of the Greeks. The original scripture translates as “breathers”, refering to people as simply “alive”.

Buddhism is also a religion that does not believe in a soul.

I wonder to what extent the “soul” is a result of religious discovery, as Arisaig suggest, and more a result of syncretism leading to its adoption as a fact. I am sure it was in the interest of the ruling political and clerical classes to insist on the existence of the soul, to be able to emphasize the possibility of eternal torment for political control.

I always believed there was a part of us that leaves this body when we die and continues on.
A soul is a convenient label for me. When I volunteered in a hospice seeing death was like watching something vital depart from a person. That spark that makes us, us.
I do think animals have that spark but am not too sure with inanimate objects.
Nature has an energy all of its own, could that be a soul? Maybe. Or is what we label a soul just energy that ignites all life, in which case then I would have to include most everything has that.
Because the energy within a person or animals shows within actions, emotions, speech ect.. Its probably easy to label that spark as a soul as such.
Within nature I suppose I attach emotions to storms, I see violence in nature, indifference, cruelty and love, beauty. Yet thats me projecting what I feel.. I can see life in nature, so I can imagine energy that goes on (as I think similar to a soul)

Do soul's exist?
I believe personally that something exists that holds the basis for who we are at the core. Wether I call it a soul or life energy or something different. I have no evidence, no proof of something more. I argue with myself over wether this belief is true, maybe I just dont want to believe that spark is lost.