What is the Force

In my experience, the Force is what has been described by spiritual traditions, in their own way, throughout history based on the unique lens that that particular tradition views the world. To some extent, regardless of our attempts to release ego and our own preconceptions, as individuals we all bring our own lens to experiences we have with this universal truth and it alters what we get out of it. One of my goals has been to reduce the lens for myself. That said, please take all of this as unverified personal gnosis.

The Force is the fundamental component of reality. Everything is derived from it/is it. All sentient beings are facets of the Force perceiving reality as an individual by animating/taking up a material form/body. The Force continues to animate more and different material forms over and over again, through fluctuations of chaos and order, and in doing so expands itself, seemingly infinitely.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: But even in the discovering, the experience is subjective and will be different for all. To take Proteus's lead and try and get past everyone describing what the force means to them maybe we need to explore what is the common thread that we all agree upon that connects us. The force is different for everyone, but there must be a common concept at the core of that idea that is the same for everyone. I describe it as experience itself. The act of existing so to speak. So is there some common concept we can all agree upon in that regard?

Come on guys. Dont let this most important thread die!!! Do it for neaj if not for yourself. Let's talk about this. Dont be afraid to express your opinion, or assert your view. Get passionate, get extreme. I challenge the oldest of members here to respond. Alex where the hell are you?? John?? Come on!! Fucking get involved in your fucking dream!!! Express yourself, tell us what you think! Guide us, be our leaders!!! Roz, come on, get out of your heads and get into the fight for this temple!!! Show us!!

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: But even in the discovering, the experience is subjective and will be different for all. To take Proteus's lead and try and get past everyone describing what the force means to them maybe we need to explore what is the common thread that we all agree upon that connects us. The force is different for everyone, but there must be a common concept at the core of that idea that is the same for everyone. I describe it as experience itself. The act of existing so to speak. So is there some common concept we can all agree upon in that regard?

Have you ever heard the story of the 3 blind men who met an elephant? In the story, 3 men, who are blind, have the opportunity to meet, and experience, an elephant. As they are blind, they did this the best way they could- with their hands.

The first felt the elephants trunk, and was satisfied, walking away with the idea that an elephant is rather like a snake.

The second felt one of it's legs, and left satisfied with his determination that an elephant was very much like a tree.

Finally, the last had handled it's tail, and reasoned that an elephant is very much like a piece of rope.

Regardless of what might occur in later discussion, they could all agree on one thing- that they were all talking about the SAME thing.

Really? So after having experienced such different things how could they possibly have come to the conclusion they were actually experiencing the same thing?

It's a fairly simple metaphor.

You're experience of the Force is different from mine, but I at least accept that we're both talking about the Force, and that may be the only thing we agree on, and I'm ok with that. That we have all experienced the Force is, in itself, a core, common experience, here, even if the experiences differ, and lead to different understandings of it, we're still talking about the same thing.

I'm sorry if that isn't very satisfying as an answer, but you asked for one and that's what I have to offer.

I'm not disparaging your experience. I'm asking you what is it about your experience that binds it to mine and makes it a common experience? You feel a snake and I feel a tree trunk. Why would we ever just agree that's the same thing without some form of connective tissue. I'm asking, what is that common connective tissue we can all agree is there and we all see exists.

So the over-long post I made earlier in the thread was designed to be for an audience who was coming at this question from an absolute standing start and one that required evidence of veneration and/or worship and ‘beliefs’: the UK charity commission.

I much prefer some of the other contributions here, but they would have made no sense to that particular audience!

I totally agree with Stormcaller - the blind men describing the elephant is a great metaphor for what we’re doing here.

By the same token Kyrin is continuing a long and distinguished line of analysis when describing the Absolute: it’s not this, not that, and so on. Many mystical traditions have concluded similarly: neti, neti, neti . In English we might do well to add another word: ‘only’.

The Force is not ONLY those things.

In the story of the blind men and the elephant, the blind men know they are discussing the same thing because there is another character (often the ‘king’) who sets the task of describing the elephant, in the first place. The blind men know they are describing different aspects (experiences) of the same thing because the king is able to see the whole elephant and communicate that to the blind men.

That involves trust on the part of the blind men. Perhaps over time, a particularly patient, curious and attentive blind man could describe the whole elephant and build-up an accurate idea? But most people won’t do this. They will cling to their favourite narrower experience and defend it from contradictory experiences.

The other very interesting question is that of identity. Are we locked into ‘blindness’ forever or are we able to become like ‘kings’ and see the whole elephant? That is another thread - perhaps for when this one has run its course . . .

Loudzoo wrote: That is another thread - perhaps for when this one has run its course . . .

Uh, what? That is this very thread. Why are you deflecting the question to an aspect of some future discussion. Face the fact that it is this very discussion and try and address it instead of avoid it or put it off.

Do people agree that the Force is actually real? That it is something which exists as a feature of reality, independent of our personal or collective mental projections?

Do people agree that we are all individually connected to the Force and collectively connected to each other via the Force?

Do people agree either that the Force communicates to us or that we are able to perceive or understand things about it which can help us to make better decisions in our lives?

Do people agree that the Force is not limited to humans but is intrinsically related to life itself?

All excellent questions. Is it something external that drives the human condition or is it something intrinsic to the human condition itself?