Apologies and actions discussion

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05 Feb 2019 20:43 #333733 by Kobos
Unintentional consequences happen, a truly emotional apology is good and all in these situations but action only action corrects the wrong.

If you intentionally wronged someone, or caused harm knowingly, save your breathe, again action comes in here but to a much higher degree and even then don't expect forgiveness.

I work with enough issues where the only reason for apologies is because they got caught, are being pressured. Seldom are those who learn, abundant are those stuck in the cycle.

A personal example, I couldn't tell you how many times I apologized for something or another after waking up hung over, sometimes I even changed my actions but in the end non of that made a damn difference until I stopped drinking (breaking the cycle), made my verbal apologies (accepting fault) and DID what it took to make amends for it(correction).

In the end, I echo James; apologies are cheap, correction is not.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

Your head will collapse. If there's nothing in it. And you'll ask yourself. Where is my mind?
Way out in the water.
See it swimmin.
With your feet in the air and your head on the ground_The Pixies
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05 Feb 2019 22:20 - 05 Feb 2019 22:30 #333740 by Stormcaller
We've been having this struggle with my (soon to be) 4 year old son- sorry isn't an avenue of absolvement, but a verbal expression of regret. And, more importantly, you can't trust an apology if it isn't followed up with a change in behavior.

We get people these days who apologize strictly as a custom, and than get mad at the person they've wronged for not accepting it, like they're owed forgiveness, and the wronged party is wronging them now.

Than there are the truly insincere- they're "apologies" come with a lot of hedging, dancing around whether or not they've actually done something wrong. You will often hear many "if"s, and "might/may have"- you can't give a sincere apology without actually admitting that you've done something wrong.

And finally we have the infamous "sorry-not-sorry", the worst applications approaching the ordeal not only as a mere formality of social custom, but with disinterest in forgiveness, presenting the wronged party as the actual problem. "I'm sorry you feel that way ".

Still, this is learned behavior, and it's possible to help people change their behavior and attitudes. Acceptance should also be sincere, and neither end of the equation can be if it's conditional beyond what's reasonable. Just as one cannot offer sincere apology without admition and promise for the future, so too can one not forgive without letting go.

Just as important, though, (this is a struggle with my 11 year old niece in particular) you're not obligated to forgive. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. "

Like so many elements of our social nature, knowing when to apologize, forgive, or not to, is a skill set. We can only make so many demands of others without demanding the same of ourselves.

Am I making sense?

Kelrax "Stormcaller" Lorcken
Last edit: 05 Feb 2019 22:30 by Stormcaller.
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05 Feb 2019 22:36 #333742 by Adder
Yea the blatantly childish 'sorry not sorry' seemed to breed the adolescent 'its better to ask for forgiveness then ask for permission' hedge :D

Just people trying to get away with stuff and justifying it to themselves as an underlying self narrative of disingenuous behaviour. In my spiritual application, to lie (or not care about accuracy) is to undermine your own progress!!! So its entirely counter-productive in those terms, and therefore a hallmark of a materialistic and short sighted person.... which I'll myself hedge by saying 'not that there's anything wrong with that' :silly:
.

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05 Feb 2019 23:11 #333746 by rugadd
I don't require apologies. I don't require people to change to suit me.

rugadd
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06 Feb 2019 01:09 #333755 by JamesSand
As much as I was against apologies generally, I think if we accept the premise, then it is worth clarifying that apologising for acts with unforseen or unintended consequences is different to apologies for your own character or nature.
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06 Feb 2019 22:56 - 07 Feb 2019 01:31 #333814 by Adder
My Facebook feed reminded me of this thread, saying;

Here’s how to apologize:
1. Look them in the eye.
2. Explain why you are sorry. (why)
3. Acknowledge why they were hurt. (because you did)
4. Tell them what you will do differently next time. (and)



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Last edit: 07 Feb 2019 01:31 by Adder.
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07 Feb 2019 10:07 #333822 by Loudzoo
The only other crucial thing I would want to clarify is (as Benjamin Franklin is quoted):

"Never ruin an apology with an excuse".

We have to own the mistake / intentional misdemeanor and not be tempted to explain it away by calling on third parties, or circumstances.
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07 Feb 2019 12:19 #333826 by JLSpinner

Loudzoo wrote: The only other crucial thing I would want to clarify is (as Benjamin Franklin is quoted):

"Never ruin an apology with an excuse".

We have to own the mistake / intentional misdemeanor and not be tempted to explain it away by calling on third parties, or circumstances.


I mostly agree. Sometimes things need to be explained, but honestly it can wait for another day.


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