Truth

More
31 Jan 2019 07:39 #333358 by ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ
The only true truth is the truth that's true from your own point of view.

I posted this on Facebook and had to laugh at an argument against it, "unless you are wrong."

One's truth can only be wrong when viewed from another's point of view.

It's so common for us to find a truth and want everyone to share in this truth that we go about preaching it as truth. To another who has established their own truth that might be the same truth but their point of view of it is different, we are wrong. And yet, we are so sure of ourselves that we tell this other person they are wrong when, in fact they are both right.

I've struggled with the concept I've often heard here, believe whatever you want. For a religion to preach this sounds like an oxymoron. But as I've come to the realization of the original statement, this practice doesn't sound so foreign.

The argument of God vs Allah vs Jehovah comes to the forefront. Many of us might argue we are talking about the same thing while others would say they are completely different.

However, the only true truth is the truth that's true from your own point of view!

May the force serve you well.
I am one with the force, the force is with me.

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ
Tragamite
Peter Schow
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Kobos

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 07:56 - 31 Jan 2019 08:01 #333360 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Truth
Hypothetically, there may be some purely intellectual sphere wherein which we can claim all perspectives to be valid and equal. But in real life reality, no; truth exists independently of you and it is your job to investigate, recognize, and acquiesce to its mandates.

Gravity is a good example. So is poison. Drink a gallon of bleach and jump off a cliff- you will die rehardless of your point of view. Thats the truth.

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
Last edit: 31 Jan 2019 08:01 by OB1Shinobi.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kobos, Uzima Moto

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Arisaig
  • Arisaig's Avatar
  • Guest
31 Jan 2019 08:11 #333362 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Truth
I'm pretty sure episode 5 goes over this.

'what I told you was true... From a certain point of view.'

If it ends up being truth from a very select angle, it's usually a lie of some degree being spun in one's favour. Either it plays into their narrative or in a way they benefit. But, overall,
it ends up not being true truth, and sometimes not even personal truth.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Arisaig
  • Arisaig's Avatar
  • Guest
31 Jan 2019 09:56 #333365 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Truth
Oh jesus what blasphemy is this. I messed up which episode I was quoting.

Is this how a Jedi ends up crucified? XD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 11:46 #333366 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Truth
What a common line to be hearing in circles like this. Personal truths, all having their place, all truthful to their own extent. I think I can prove to your own satisfaction that that is not what you mean when speaking of truth. Consider this:

We have multiple words to express individual perspectives. "Perspective" being one of them, "point of view", "opinion", and we all associate some kind of personal, internal model with all of these, that may be to some extent or another rooted in past experience, or reasoning unstated, or intuitions, or any combination of any of the three.
So what of "truth", then? Well, if truth is just another word for the same thing, then why do we need it when we already have so many perfectly unambiguous ways to express it? Is it a prettier, shorter word? Surely that would be a circumstance of language, then, not of substance. We can invent an arbitrarily short word or symbol to express the same thing, and wouldn't have gained anything we didn't have already. So why go through the trouble?
It's obvious. What we really want is not at all just another word for personal perspective. Rather, the actual motivation is to be able to say that what ever pet theory we happen to have is "true", because truth is a word both ourselves and the world around us associate some more broad validity with, something explicitly non-subjective. Really, then, though you say truth is what ever we personally decide is truth, or relative in some other way, you only say that because that is exactly not what you mean when you speak of truth.

The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 12:31 #333369 by JLSpinner
Replied by JLSpinner on topic Truth

Gisteron wrote: What a common line to be hearing in circles like this. Personal truths, all having their place, all truthful to their own extent. I think I can prove to your own satisfaction that that is not what you mean when speaking of truth. Consider this:

We have multiple words to express individual perspectives. "Perspective" being one of them, "point of view", "opinion", and we all associate some kind of personal, internal model with all of these, that may be to some extent or another rooted in past experience, or reasoning unstated, or intuitions, or any combination of any of the three.
So what of "truth", then? Well, if truth is just another word for the same thing, then why do we need it when we already have so many perfectly unambiguous ways to express it? Is it a prettier, shorter word? Surely that would be a circumstance of language, then, not of substance. We can invent an arbitrarily short word or symbol to express the same thing, and wouldn't have gained anything we didn't have already. So why go through the trouble?
It's obvious. What we really want is not at all just another word for personal perspective. Rather, the actual motivation is to be able to say that what ever pet theory we happen to have is "true", because truth is a word both ourselves and the world around us associate some more broad validity with, something explicitly non-subjective. Really, then, though you say truth is what ever we personally decide is truth, or relative in some other way, you only say that because that is exactly not what you mean when you speak of truth.


I agree that the term is misleading. I call them realizations. While the term is wrong, this doesn't affect the value we place on what is behind the term. The truth of our realization.


Teaching Master: Phortis Nespin
Apprentice: Kobos
Apprentice: Nakis
Contact Clergy
The following user(s) said Thank You: Arisaig

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 15:43 #333372 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Truth

ནའдհдཀ༑ནკ wrote: The only true truth is the truth that's true from your own point of view.

I posted this on Facebook and had to laugh at an argument against it, "unless you are wrong."

One's truth can only be wrong when viewed from another's point of view.

It's so common for us to find a truth and want everyone to share in this truth that we go about preaching it as truth. To another who has established their own truth that might be the same truth but their point of view of it is different, we are wrong. And yet, we are so sure of ourselves that we tell this other person they are wrong when, in fact they are both right.

I've struggled with the concept I've often heard here, believe whatever you want. For a religion to preach this sounds like an oxymoron. But as I've come to the realization of the original statement, this practice doesn't sound so foreign.

The argument of God vs Allah vs Jehovah comes to the forefront. Many of us might argue we are talking about the same thing while others would say they are completely different.

However, the only true truth is the truth that's true from your own point of view!




On line or in real life , I find the word “can” to be a very present piece of my practice in creating and finding connections I used to ignore or never really cared for. As my focus is many things, the few I keep in front are similar to the connection to the Force and humanity more than labels. This means when my friends and family, as well as fellow Jedi - my answer is / truth CAN be subjective at times - leaving room for all those possible times I know could very well or I know for a fact exist.

I grew up where death and truth were ... never spoken about but ran everything. The fear of it did. There were truths there that only exist if you are in that society or in that type of environment. There , the type of kill or be killed was a constant. In that environment, lying was a art and a necessity. The lines often blurr on areas like that. The example isn’t hypothetical , it is what I and a few others have experienced one way or another in similar paths. Which truths carry over to my now waaaaay different focus? Did they change or grow? Do truths grow into other truths ? Can some lead you to others ? The million dollar question ... can we live and as I tell my students - function - with everyone else being ... them ( not u) with a whole set of difrent truths and ways and beliefs and difrent levels of paths and ... truths ...? Can I be Jedi when no one else is or even when every in the room is... hmmm thank u for the thought provoking question !

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 18:40 #333382 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic Truth
"Truth is one, but different sages it call it by different names" does not mean all names are correct, or that all people doing the calling are, in fact, sages.

Long-term consistency trumps short term intensity
- Bruce Lee
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi, Kasumi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 20:48 #333393 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Truth
I like the quote, and I would think it applies to more personal "realizations" about one's self or own life.. and I also think it can be distinguished from the truth of reality..

I think we have to be careful. There seems to be a trend in society to create personal realities that don't always line up to the real world. Personally, I believe that begins with the secrecy found in the halls of power. The root of social corruption..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi, Kasumi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.