The War on Consciousness -- Graham Hancock

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09 Dec 2018 13:01 - 09 Dec 2018 13:13 #330396 by Arisaig


In short, materialist-centric thinking is killing our ability to find balance and harmony with each other and the world at large.

Its been seen that capitalism, materialism, and ego-centric thinking is destroying our planet ever so slowly simply because people will do anything for personal gain, be that material, financial, or status gain.

Ages ago, the human race was much more open to experimenting with the conscious and subconscious mind to learn more about themselves and, in turn, the world around them. Some, if not many, did so through the use of psychoactive stimulants found commonly in plant based drugs.

So, here is my question. As Jedi, should we fight this materialist (attachment to physical goods and/or gain) in pursuit of such knowledge, slowly being lost? And, either way, do you agree that a rational and mentally sound adult capable of consent should be allowed to have the freedom to experiment with their conscious mind through such means? And if so, why?

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Last edit: 09 Dec 2018 13:13 by Arisaig. Reason: final question
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09 Dec 2018 13:25 #330398 by Loudzoo
I think this is a snippet of his longer, banned TED Talk - its a really good one! As Jedi I think we need to embrace a materialist, deterministic approach within the realms of knowledge where such a paradigm makes sense e.g. classical physics. However, there is much more to life, consciousness, and being than classical physics. It's obvious to me that human experience cannot be reduced to the random interaction of sub-atomic particles. The emergent phenomena that dominate our lives cannot be fully explained or understood, solely by a reductive scientific determinism.

If there is a fight to be fought its to integrate all these paradigms - that's where the answers lie.

As for freedom of consciousness - its ridiculous that the state should ever have the power to criminalise the use of certain plants and natural compounds. The good news is that increasingly, governments are rescinding this power. Long may that spread and continue!

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09 Dec 2018 14:15 #330400 by Arisaig

Loudzoo wrote: As for freedom of consciousness - its ridiculous that the state should ever have the power to criminalise the use of certain plants and natural compounds. The good news is that increasingly, governments are rescinding this power. Long may that spread and continue!


I very much agree. Figures, that after I leave my home country there is legalisation of marijuana, eh? Hoping that, along with Tim Horton's, follows me to this side of the puddle.

But I agree, having these obscure pick and choosing of plants one is allowed to grow makes no sense. I can grow sugarcane if I want, which has been proven to be more addictive and harmful than cocaine (I type, sipping my pepsi...), but can't grow my own tobacco (despite it being legal). A strange world of capitalism we live in, indeed.

In the end, if someone isn't hurting someone, or potentially could hurt someone through their actions... why ban it? If it only hurts them, let them. That's freedom, the freedom to make mistakes.

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09 Dec 2018 14:19 #330401 by Rosalyn J
I think we do need to take a look at the way that we engage with the world. As the speaker did say we have a very very narrow way of engaging. Hallucinogenics is only one way to reclaim these connections to Consciousness that we might have lost. The other is being open to spiritual Awakening.

We cannot rely on hallucinogenics to change the way that we see the world. We have to give ourselves the option to have a spiritual experience aided by hallucinagenics, sure, but an experience nonetheless.

If we want to see our connection with the spirit world we need to expect it when we look out our wondow or walk down a street or meet one another.

And no the state ought not control our consumption of any product including hallucinagens

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09 Dec 2018 14:27 - 09 Dec 2018 14:37 #330404 by Arisaig

Rosalyn J wrote: I think we do need to take a look at the way that we engage with the world. As the speaker did say we have a very very narrow way of engaging. Hallucinogenics is only one way to reclaim these connections to Consciousness that we might have lost. The other is being open to spiritual Awakening.

We cannot rely on hallucinogenics to change the way that we see the world. We have to give ourselves the option to have a spiritual experience aided by hallucinagenics, sure, but an experience nonetheless.

If we want to see our connection with the spirit world we need to expect it when we look out our wondow or walk down a street or meet one another.

And no the state ought not control our consumption of any product including hallucinagens


I do agree, relying on such things can become more of a crutch than a ladder. I'd argue that it can, however, be used as a form of training wheels, making it easier and perhaps even starting someone on a Path otherwise overlooked.

But, as with training wheels, eventually they need to come off. They can become impeding to a Path. You don't see Olympic Cyclists with them (because it would slow them down), but you know they started, many years ago, with them. Without them, they would fall and perhaps grow frustrated and give up, closing off that Path to them.

In pursuing the spiritual, we must look within and within the world around us. I know from personal experience that smoking helped me begin this process, but eventually it became less and less needed until... well, today, I'm six months clean. But without it... perhaps I wouldn't be as open to the Force as I am today.

Just a thought to mull over. ;)

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Last edit: 09 Dec 2018 14:37 by Arisaig.
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09 Dec 2018 16:12 #330413 by Zenchi
Fascinating, I was introduced to Hancock through Joe Rogan, they've both had quite a few rather interesting podcasts together over the years. It's been theorized that the Acacia bush that possesses DMT is the very burning bush that spoke to Moses...

Hallucigenics most assuredly are a danger to society, and the elders of society understood this early on. It's liberating, removes the bs illusionary veil that those same elders and leaders attempted to, and continue to force feed the masses...

It's not something that you can experience from merely looking out your window, and if you can, keep it to yourself as those around you may start to believe your mad...lol

Hallucigenics force us to look at the world in a new light, it is this fact LSD has been a very successful tool in the treatment of addiction, depression, and a host of other mentally related ailments...

They remove us from our comfort zones of "what is" and "What really is possible." This is why they are illegal, they're eye opening. Terence Mckenna said it best, "Once you go in, you can never go back." In other words, once you've had your eyes opened, you can never "choose" to close them again. It is something that must be experienced to be understood...

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09 Dec 2018 19:01 - 09 Dec 2018 19:14 #330430 by OB1Shinobi
First my rant on capitalism lol
I always feel its lacking in self awareness when well fed, affluent people bash capitalism from behind their computers. The standard of living in the western world has skyrocketed over the last 200 years as a direct result of capitalism and the innovation that comes with it. If we’re gonna criticize capitalism then we have to consider the alternatives... and there arent any good ones. Socialists would probably not advance technology as quickly as capitalists so they might pollute less, but its not like theyre giving up electricity or industry, and whatever pollution they create theyd likely be stuck with because they dont innovate enough to find a solution to it.
And btw, do you know how much capital the TEDTalks are raking in? It RIDICULOUS, lol. Everything we are doing here was made possible as a result of capitalism, including the video itself.


Law
In general, more feedom is better than less freedom. Teach people how to be responsible and then basically let them do what they want, realiizing many will do things you dont agree with. Thats what freedom is, and im a big fan. People should certainly have the legal right to do drugs if they want to. And many other “offensive” rights as well.


Hallucinogens
Ive done a bunch of them and im still a jerk, lol. Theyre cool and all but my experience (which i do have quite a lot of) is that the most people only FEEL transformed by the substance, they arent ACTUALLY transformed. The drug wears off and they still have the same interpersonal challenges they had before doing it. Theyre still too jealous and too emotionally reactive, they still take things too personally and they still cant muster up the confidence to assert themselves when they need to. Whatever challenges youre facing before eating those mushrooms are still going to be there when you the mishrooms are gone. Theyre a lot of fun and they do open our perceptions up to “mystical experience” which is admittedly quite a beautiful place to be, but imo this is over-rated. The real work of life is, well, work, lol.

Id guess the people who would get the most bang for their buck so to speak, the ones who are the most likely to experience a genuine and positive change in their day to day personality as a result of hallucinogens, are people with real psychological trauma who undergo this experience under the guidance of a professional - whether this be the religious figures leading the ritual or the mental health specialists in charge of the treatment. Id lean towards the mental health specialists at this point because i suspect they are better aware of the need for psychological first aid and client training in the management of every day life, beyond the scope of the drug experience. And as i say this i realize that i may be voicing my own bias. Idrk how the religious leaders handle the ritual because ive never done one under such guidance.

Finally, I think this post probably just feels like im just being negative and i hope this last idea might somewhat alleviate that: if this is something youre really interested in, maybe you could do a great service to people by investigating how a “psychedelic therapy” session ought to be lead? What are the actual procedures for bringing people into and guiding them through that event so that they do experience real psychological healing, and lasting change?

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
Last edit: 09 Dec 2018 19:14 by OB1Shinobi.
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09 Dec 2018 19:10 #330433 by Gisteron
Setting aside matters of individual sovereignty and a state sovereign's duty to serve and protect its individual citizens, I think that pseudoscience is not a worthwhile enterprise and that as humans generally, Jedi or not, we ought educate ourselves enough to not fall prey to it just because we like the sound of it. As Jedi in particular we should be mindful of our biases, passions, and emotions and take account of what sharlatanry they make us susceptible to.

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09 Dec 2018 22:04 #330461 by Uzima Moto
The War on consciousness is against its development.. to maintain its underdeveloped state. Though many of us(human souls) are advanced in spiritual awareness and practical intelligence. This isn't so for the vast majority. Hense, collectively, our consciousness is sub-par. In this child like state, our collective will is easily manipulated. Mostly by intense emotions like fear, anger, or hatred. In this manner, the will of the many serves the will of the few..

As for psychedelic drugs, they can open your consciousness. Even low grade kinds like pcp can make you more aware of the subtle energies in our universe. In these altered states, you're not perceiving the world through your natural senses.. but these are just temporary. As someone said earlier. They don't cause a true change in our nature. Just our immediate perception of the world and our own nature..

Development, or lack thereof, of our psychic faculties doesn't create the change in our natures. It doesn't choose the Light or Dark for us.. Our actions and our intent determine the change.. An ignorant soul could be more enlightened than the old mage. Not in mind, but in spirit.. because of what he chooses to do with his power. He shares and creates. Instead of concealing, perverting, manipulating, or destroying the world around him..

Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem
By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.
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09 Dec 2018 23:45 - 10 Dec 2018 00:29 #330464 by OB1Shinobi
Also Airi I should have worded the first part of my post so that it “targeted” mr hancock rather than you. You were only relaying his ideas. Maybe the revised version would look something like...

I find it lacking in self awareness (or perhaps just steeped in hypocrisy) when people want to sell me a product (such as a book) wherein they are bashing capitalism. If theyre so morally opposed to the evils of the capitalist system, why dont they just GIVE me the product (in mr hancocks case, a book he wrote) and i can repay them with my good wishes for their continued success (not in a capitalist sense, of course)?

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
Last edit: 10 Dec 2018 00:29 by OB1Shinobi.
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