Self Control

What is it with this place and people construing everything that isnt an agreement or " From a certain point of view" answers as somehow hostile, or the other person being upset?

First, it addresses nothing, and really is seldom ever the case.

It also really wouldnt matter if one is addressing the argument and not the person. It has no real bearing on whether or not the allegedly angry person does, or does not have a point.

Khaos wrote: What is it with this place and people construing everything that isnt an agreement or " From a certain point of view" answers as somehow hostile, or the other person being upset?

First, it addresses nothing, and really is seldom ever the case.

It also really wouldnt matter if one is addressing the argument and not the person. It has no real bearing on whether or not the allegedly angry person does, or does not have a point.

It's about the use of language; just because an argument can be considered constructive (by agreeing or disagreeing) - it does not mean its also supportive. A place with religious focus tends to prefer both supportive and constructive. Which can be taken back around in circles by going to that place where rambling on about how people need to be challenged and pushed out of their comfort zone blabla, but its a bit of circle jerk used by trolls and not really the point of the TOTJO afaik.

Adder wrote: rambling on about how people need to be challenged and pushed out of their comfort zone blabla, but its a bit of circle jerk used by trolls and not really the point of the TOTJO afaik.

What do you feel the point of the temple is then? Why all this training and why all these study courses like the IP if they are not supposed to challenge peoples comfort zones? What use is any of it if not for exploring ideas and stimulating the mind for growth?

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: rambling on about how people need to be challenged and pushed out of their comfort zone blabla, but its a bit of circle jerk used by trolls and not really the point of the TOTJO afaik.

What do you feel the point of the temple is then? Why all this training and why all these study courses like the IP if they are not supposed to challenge peoples comfort zones? What use is any of it if not for exploring ideas and stimulating the mind for growth?

Feel free to start a different forum topic. Thank you

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote:
Feel free to start a different forum topic. Thank you

Thanks but Im fine right here.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: rambling on about how people need to be challenged and pushed out of their comfort zone blabla, but its a bit of circle jerk used by trolls and not really the point of the TOTJO afaik.

What do you feel the point of the temple is then? Why all this training and why all these study courses like the IP if they are not supposed to challenge peoples comfort zones? What use is any of it if not for exploring ideas and stimulating the mind for growth?

I feel the point of the temple in general would be to provide an open minded forum for those who wish to speak, be it what they may, wouldn't you agree it is good to have an open forum even if some of it is nonsensical and unreasonable?

The IP for me served as an overall lesson on being open minded, I didn't necessarily agree with some of those lessons I did but I did keep my mind open to them, those some what challenged my comfort zone as I dove a little bit into my own biases against certain beliefs and world views. What purpose did it serve for you?

Are we not exploring ideas and attempting to grow the mind even if we are argueing something that has no scientific basis or that may seem a fallacy to us? Are we by discussing the original topic pushing our comfort zones by discussing something in seriousness that we may find silly? To some it's not silly, it maybe something they are really inquiring about, just trying to learn more about despite if it is real or not.

Much love, respect and peace,
Kobos

Original subject

Does anyone have any Psychometric experience? It seems to be included in many of the basic powers of a Jedi's toolbelt, and have been curious about adding it to my practice.

Try not to derail subject pls

Carlos, your personal belief that this thread is derailed is yours alone...you seem to be the only one interrupting the conversation. In any case, If the mods deem it fit they will split it.

Kobos wrote: I feel the point of the temple in general would be to provide an open minded forum for those who wish to speak, be it what they may, wouldn't you agree it is good to have an open forum even if some of it is nonsensical and unreasonable?

The IP for me served as an overall lesson on being open minded, I didn't necessarily agree with some of those lessons I did but I did keep my mind open to them, those some what challenged my comfort zone as I dove a little bit into my own biases against certain beliefs and world views. What purpose did it serve for you?

Are we not exploring ideas and attempting to grow the mind even if we are argueing something that has no scientific basis or that may seem a fallacy to us? Are we by discussing the original topic pushing our comfort zones by discussing something in seriousness that we may find silly? To some it's not silly, it maybe something they are really inquiring about, just trying to learn more about despite if it is real or not.

Absolutely I agree 100%. That is the point of this place and it is why there are so many forums that are relegated to specific subject matter.

I approached the IP just as you did, with an open mind, even though I, as you did, found some of it nonsensical. Exploring things like this is the very reason we delve into things of that nature. Things we find unreasonable or strange or make no sense. Apparent answers to unanswerable questions. It is the curiosity of the search that drives us.

The question as to whether psychometry or any paranormal phenomena is real or not is a valid question. But I want to explore it from a position of honesty, not assumption. We cant explore the power of a phenomena until we can actually show that phenomena to be real. Dont you agree? To do anything other than that is a waste of time and effort. Hunting snipe in the woods is a funny joke but ultimately meaningless effort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe_hunt

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Adder wrote: rambling on about how people need to be challenged and pushed out of their comfort zone blabla, but its a bit of circle jerk used by trolls and not really the point of the TOTJO afaik.

What do you feel the point of the temple is then? Why all this training and why all these study courses like the IP if they are not supposed to challenge peoples comfort zones? What use is any of it if not for exploring ideas and stimulating the mind for growth?

It's a false dichotomy to assert that it has to be one or the other, that is the other part of the 'going around in circles of complaining' I mentioned above. I'd suggest the wider Temple benefits from both a constructive and supportive environment, and that Temple programs enable deeper levels of engagement!
Programs like perhaps an Apprenticeship, it structurally seems the most obvious ideal vehicle for being more challenging, because it gives Council a chance to make some effort to ensure the challenger has some doctrinal appreciation and can be given more trust to challenge safely in a cooperative engaged effort - which means less chance of accidentally doing more damage then good. So structured programs can.create natures of working relationship between people which afford different types of engagement, such as to be more challenging also means being more careful. For 'anything goes' just equates to normalizing at bullying as people tend to put self interests over others, which is most definitely not supportive of those in the most need.

@ adder

More damage than good? How do you define either of those standards? What gives you the right to define anything as damaging or not?

You consider these "deeper levels" as being defined in apprentisship but it is one that affords only a narrowly defined set of paramaters in a dogmatic doctrine that has never been proven to have any more merit to the human condition than any other.

In fact it is free expression that has been shown to rule the day in every aspect of life. Fascist regimes and limiting religions and socialist paradigms cause the masses to stagnate and die. Free economies and individual expression alone produces growth and greater life!

I have walked your sounding chamber of apprentisship and found the process lacking because of people far removed from the capability of their charge. It is a broken system of control as any system is that tries to steer a narrow path under the promise of freedom.

I would only hope that those few that break your yoke of conformity realise the next yoke presented is a false promise and that freedom reigns in their taking extreme self responsibility for their own wellbeing.