Legality and Morality in the Kavanaugh proceedings

Kyrin, yes you never said victory. I meant more to address the "own the libs" tone. I mean what legally can happen, happened.

Uzima, your whole point revolves around social contract theory, and I'm not going to bandy that when there are millions of different sources for it already. Needless to say, just because you think you're responsible enough to do something doesn't mean everyone is.

Beano, while yes there are those "death to cis/white/etc" extremists, I would argue those don't represent mainstream or significant beliefs similar to how neo-nazis don't either. Sen Feinstein may be under investigation for leaking the Ford letter, but I will let the investigation or lack thereof say more than my speculation.

Rex,

You can argue all you want it isn't mainsteam but...

A senator said men should "Shut up"
A senator said Sen Collins was a gender trader
A senator said people should harness those with different opinions
College professions said white men should be killed
College professors said it was a victory to destroy a mans life
A senator called for impeachment of a new judge
A senator called for using the FBI outside of its jurisdiction for political purposes...

These are not coming from the gutter of society, newspapers are publishing and pushing these people, journalists are releasing things they admit have no other corroborating sources. Lawyers are withholding information that would have been in the best interest of their client....

There was only 1 side that lacked Morality. That doesn't mean anyone was perfect, but it was clear one side wanted to do better and one side wanted power. I think it is a big deal to make statements like this here, but evil should not go unchallenged, and we witnessed evil.

Presidential immunity hardly is a new thing. It's up to voters to give it responsibly. In some countries, like the UK, people don't even get to choose their head of state.

Ah correct beans I did just recently the FBI disengaged from the insanity of it and being an agent if executive intelligence I responded with the same but corruption I can tell that leads to the death of many people is just what I would love to fuck and enjoy destroying every single day of the week but toactually get to look inmn the eyes of the perpertraiters before they were exicuted would be phenomenal. I for one wouldn't mind that they suffered also repetitive periods if painful exposure to hell with fire and lighteng strikes from the sky

Rex wrote: Kyrin, yes you never said victory. I meant more to address the "own the libs" tone. I mean what legally can happen, happened.

This is a thread on morality correct? So yes my post tone is that way for a reason. The only group here to express any form of moral integrity are those supporting the system and upholding innocent until proven guilty. Justice was served in this regard and morality ruled the day.

What do you have in contrast to that? Liberals like ari calling him morally disgusting and that he should be denied simply because he was accused. Storm caller screaming that he did it!! No evidence, just burn him down. Ari claiming trump conspiracy. These sorts of unfounded claims are truly morally bankrupt. Beano provided many other examples as these that were done other places, people willing to further an agenda no matter who they destroy along the way.

These sorts of disgusting acts should be carefully considered come time for knighthood here. I do not believe they embody what a jedi is supposed to be.

I don’t keep up with the news as much as some would like me but ... wasn’t the aligations from many years ago? 1982- There are a many people who only seek attention when it’s relitive or even when it’s worth money and attention. I don’t deny it may or may not have happened - but there seems to be a sort of time - limit? Sthingb like that to ward off this type of delema. Why did they wait till now to make this relevant ? Seems shady on both ends

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I don’t keep up with the news as much as some would like me but ... wasn’t the aligations from many years ago? 1982- There are a many people who only seek attention when it’s relitive or even when it’s worth money and attention. I don’t deny it may or may not have happened - but there seems to be a sort of time - limit? Sthingb like that to ward off this type of delema. Why did they wait till now to make this relevant ? Seems shady on both ends

There is no time limit on justice. Bill Cosby is currently in jail for 3-9 years for things he did that same time-frame ago. Cosby had (from what I remember) over 30 accusers for the injustices he did against them. How many can you remember without looking them up? I can't even recall a single one, and that's prolly how they want to be remembered (or, more fittingly, not remembered). Who wants to be remembered as the person that was raped by Cosby? Small list, that. They also don't want the attention, but these kinds of cases of this level get publicised.

Mrs. Ford, Kavenaugh's accuser, has been issued many death threats, had people protest at her house. She doesn't feel safe anywhere, and all she wants is justice for the injustices done to her 30 years ago. Yes, thats a long time ago, and the argument can indeed be made that perhaps there should be a time limit... but that's not how law works. You commit a crime, if you get found out, you are punished for it. But, all in all, death threats and protests at your doorstep are not often the form of 'attention' one goes seeking. Whatever 'money' she would get out of it would most likely be spent in moving to a safer area where she feels she can sleep safely away from... well, death threats and protests.

In the end, she called for an FBI investigation into her side of the story, and he has not. Why? Well, he has already told the FBI that it didn't happen. And it is, after all, a crime to lie to the FBI. If he is lying, thats two crimes, one from 30+ years ago yes, but one from not less than a fortnight ago. And that's the man sitting on Supreme Court.

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I don’t keep up with the news as much as some would like me but ... wasn’t the aligations from many years ago? 1982- There are a many people who only seek attention when it’s relitive or even when it’s worth money and attention. I don’t deny it may or may not have happened - but there seems to be a sort of time - limit? Sthingb like that to ward off this type of delema. Why did they wait till now to make this relevant ? Seems shady on both ends

There is no time limit on justice. Bill Cosby is currently in jail for 3-9 years for things he did that same time-frame ago. Cosby had (from what I remember) over 30 accusers for the injustices he did against them. How many can you remember without looking them up? I can't even recall a single one, and that's prolly how they want to be remembered (or, more fittingly, not remembered). Who wants to be remembered as the person that was raped by Cosby? Small list, that. They also don't want the attention, but these kinds of cases of this level get publicised.

Mrs. Ford, Kavenaugh's accuser, has been issued many death threats, had people protest at her house. She doesn't feel safe anywhere, and all she wants is justice for the injustices done to her 30 years ago. Yes, thats a long time ago, and the argument can indeed be made that perhaps there should be a time limit... but that's not how law works. You commit a crime, if you get found out, you are punished for it. But, all in all, death threats and protests at your doorstep are not often the form of 'attention' one goes seeking. Whatever 'money' she would get out of it would most likely be spent in moving to a safer area where she feels she can sleep safely away from... well, death threats and protests.

In the end, she called for an FBI investigation into her side of the story, and he has not. Why? Well, he has already told the FBI that it didn't happen. And it is, after all, a crime to lie to the FBI. If he is lying, thats two crimes, one from 30+ years ago yes, but one from not less than a fortnight ago. And that's the man sitting on Supreme Court.

So has Mr Kavenaugh, and his wife, and his two daughters, both sides are being targeted unnecessarily...Hypothetically speaking even if Mr kavenaugh did what he did, does his family deserve that? If he didn't, does either side deserve what's happening to them? Justice is one thing, but all the excessive hate is another. People acting out when they don't even know the truth is the biggest tragedy here of all. Yes the whole thing is sketchy but this is the exact reason why you need to have proof, lives on both sides are being unnecessarily destroyed by the fallout of it.

She’s got the right - no doubt about that but - the joys of being a free nation... free to not and free to... some times the way we practice individual freedoms don’t line up with others freedom.

I knew a guy who was a bum - since birth. street runner, Gansta, thief, killer, and all around bad guy. You know that guy went to church and got saved? For like- 6 years - he served in his local church and became a pilar of the community. A true testament to his faith. Then one day he was charged with something he did years ago. Sexual assault to a minor. You know what he did. He not only took what all come out - but did everything in his power to make things right - in the present. When he was charged with it and sentenced to prison - the judge said he was sending a reformed man. His presence in Takula Texas prison was the longest 6 years of my family’s life. After he got out - he did what he could. My uncle told me as he was released -“ my debt may be payed but a heart can now start to be remade.” Dude was willing to pay his debt and - AND make it right , however long it took. Truth be told guess who sits at his table on Sunday after church... his accuser. Not a every day type of thing but then - there are ways to make things right. Can’t tell people what to do and I won’t , but there’s gotta be a try some where right ?

Tellahane wrote:

Arisaig wrote:

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: I don’t keep up with the news as much as some would like me but ... wasn’t the aligations from many years ago? 1982- There are a many people who only seek attention when it’s relitive or even when it’s worth money and attention. I don’t deny it may or may not have happened - but there seems to be a sort of time - limit? Sthingb like that to ward off this type of delema. Why did they wait till now to make this relevant ? Seems shady on both ends

There is no time limit on justice. Bill Cosby is currently in jail for 3-9 years for things he did that same time-frame ago. Cosby had (from what I remember) over 30 accusers for the injustices he did against them. How many can you remember without looking them up? I can't even recall a single one, and that's prolly how they want to be remembered (or, more fittingly, not remembered). Who wants to be remembered as the person that was raped by Cosby? Small list, that. They also don't want the attention, but these kinds of cases of this level get publicised.

Mrs. Ford, Kavenaugh's accuser, has been issued many death threats, had people protest at her house. She doesn't feel safe anywhere, and all she wants is justice for the injustices done to her 30 years ago. Yes, thats a long time ago, and the argument can indeed be made that perhaps there should be a time limit... but that's not how law works. You commit a crime, if you get found out, you are punished for it. But, all in all, death threats and protests at your doorstep are not often the form of 'attention' one goes seeking. Whatever 'money' she would get out of it would most likely be spent in moving to a safer area where she feels she can sleep safely away from... well, death threats and protests.

In the end, she called for an FBI investigation into her side of the story, and he has not. Why? Well, he has already told the FBI that it didn't happen. And it is, after all, a crime to lie to the FBI. If he is lying, thats two crimes, one from 30+ years ago yes, but one from not less than a fortnight ago. And that's the man sitting on Supreme Court.

So has Mr Kavenaugh, and his wife, and his two daughters, both sides are being targeted unnecessarily...Hypothetically speaking even if Mr kavenaugh did what he did, does his family deserve that? If he didn't, does either side deserve what's happening to them? Justice is one thing, but all the excessive hate is another. People acting out when they don't even know the truth is the biggest tragedy here of all. Yes the whole thing is sketchy but this is the exact reason why you need to have proof, lives on both sides are being unnecessarily destroyed by the fallout of it.

Yeah, they are, and very much unfortunately. As Jedi, we learn to focus on the present moment and its consequences on the future. Just like how Ford is being attacked for standing up and saying enough is enough, I cannot sit by while this man who has got away with crimes becomes the head of the law.

And, just like how Ford's actions have led to this attack against her person by the public, yes, Kavenaugh's family has also been targeted for the actions of their patriarch. I do not agree with how people have targeted them, but I do agree in his wife's siding with him. "for better or for worse" and all that. His actions of three decades past now come back to haunt him, and unfortunately, those that are intrinsically connected to him.

All this, however, could have been changed by a simple and honest statement, which I've outlined in my first response to this thread. He could have shown change, remorse, and a desire to change America under his rule. If he had done that, even if guilty, I would probably find more reason to respect and even side with him on this debate.