Why so many people become disappointed with this community

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5 years 6 months ago #326730 by
I have seen person after person come to this place over the years and express how perfectly this place seems to be and something they have been searching for all their lives. Then within a few months they are expressing dismay at some of the antics here and doubting their earlier statements and wondering why this place is not actually what they originally perceived it to be. They are disappointed and question whether or not they should remain here.

The problem with dilemmas of this sort is that these people are making a most common critical oversight when it comes to spiritual work. They are looking for something external to themselves to fulfill some desire or angst they have with life. So a journey is started in search of that “perfect niche” in a philosophy or religion or spiritual community that has the perfect dogma to insert themselves into to end that angst in their being. But as they wander from religion to religion and spiritual path to spiritual path in search of that niche they are disappointed over and over because eventually each one fails to live up to that expectation and so they move on to the next. So why is this?

The problem is that this “perfect niche” does not exist externally. External paradigms, like this Jedi community, are limited and therefore can never contain the entirety of our lives. On the other hand our lives are unlimited and can accept and incorporate any number of paradigms. But we do things backwards by spending so much time trying to fit our unlimited lives into the limited paradigm when we should be fitting the limited paradigm into our unlimited lives. And not just one paradigm but many, many paradigms. Taking the bits and pieces from each one and building something inside ourselves that is completely unique and perfectly suited for our personal path.

I have been as guilty of this as anyone and the one thing this place taught me was that I had been doing it backwards. So I say to you now, stop doing things backwards and see this place for what it is, not a perfect place full of perfect Jedi that will fulfill your every desire and end your angst in a perfect way. It is none of those things and it never will be. But so too, no place will ever be. But it (and other paradigms) can be a place where you dismiss what does not speak to you but take what does speak to you and use that to build your own personal internal paradigm that is perfectly suited for you. And when it is built, stick around and share that wisdom with others in places like this so that they may find one more stone for their paradigm. I think this is the true secret that we all search for in this journey. And quite frankly it is the reason I remain here.

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5 years 6 months ago #326733 by Eleven
You know I have seen these posts and they are a dime a dozen of late as last several years on this Temple. I normally do not respond to them anymore because I think there are pointless waste of time. You know I've had my issues before and have expressed them stated my case but if come to some sort of mutual agreement between the council and myself and have moved on some people need to move on. I stayed before yes people come in with his huge euphoria that this is what they've been looking for all their lives but just like any human being on this Earth they get bored and tired of it it's no different than joining any mainstream religious organization. Either somebody offends them or they're not getting the reaction or attention they feel they deserve so therefore they get crossed with the temple and the community and they either leave or they just stop posting or sharing their feelings or thoughts all together. This may sound a little insensitive get over it you know when you look at the air balance of things this Temple as a whole despite all the differences in personalities and viewpoints and failures is a great place to be. There is such a big amount of knowledge and resources that are free to use and people who are ranked Jedi Masters and teachers who are by the way not paid for their advice and direction spiritually because they love people and want to encourage others. The temple could downright start charging a membership fee to be part of this Temple and have access to the resources if they wanted to but it is remain free over the years I've been here and I think those who are involved. Point Blank I don't mean to be insensitive again but some people just need to get over it this is an old subject and it's time to move on...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tl1zqH4lsSmKOyCLU9sdOSAUig7Q38QW4okOwSz2V4c/edit
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5 years 6 months ago #326736 by
I’m sure that’s the reason some people have, but certainly not all.
Your point is important and people should keep themselves in check to make sure they’re not falling into that. It’s not always easy to separate the path and the community, but it’s essential, just as you said.
I don’t think every dissatisfied person has wanted perfection...

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5 years 6 months ago #326738 by Carlos.Martinez3
There can be a place where an individual can grow. It can be a place or it can be a idea or it can be a mix or even anything we choose. We all grow in different ways. Jedi - or not - we as humans can grow. I’m glad I found this place. Each of us have our own testimony to this place and tomotjer means. I can’t tell you how much I’ve had as far as insight from sitting under a tree. Honestly.
A nitch can be different for each of us as our own fingerprint. We can share them or learn from them and evem learn more. During my time in service- I was in the Army I learned the the phrase - “adjust fire as you run.” Now during time of peace and real life- the applications are WAY different but still applicable. It’s all up to how we as individuals apply and try - what we know.

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pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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5 years 6 months ago #326741 by
To put it simply, I think some people become disappointed because they forget that this digital space is inhabited by HUMANS. We are biased. We can be emotional. We come from a wide variety of backgrounds and have an even greater number of opinions. The very fact that we encourage diversity and syncretism means that each of us will inevitably rub up against an idea or opinion we are not comfortable with. The question is, do you explore that idea and debate those opinions in the search of greater knowledge and wisdom in order to better yourself, or do you blame the discomfort on the community and storm off in a tantrum being no better off than when you arrived?

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5 years 6 months ago #326743 by
Since I'm assuming this is directed at me at least in part, I will take a moment to answer.

I'm farthest from perfection as one can be. I do not expect perfection from anyone. But I do expect the effort of trying to adhere to the moral code and principals of the religion (since we are talking about a temple and a religion here).

In a religion, I also expect the leadership and clergy of the temple to be doing a better job than the rest of us at living up to those. They are supposed to be the best of the best and the shining example for the congregation.

I also don't expect the leaders and clergy to say "Hey, we're only human." as an excuse for themselves and others failing. That excuse is fine for a social media group - but not a religion.

I can't speak for those that came before me, but I think the reason you see this trend, is because I think that is happening to many others who have come here expecting a religion, and not a typical internet forum.

Just my lowly opinion.

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5 years 6 months ago #326747 by thomaswfaulkner
While I am only human, I do expect to be held accountable for my actions because I can only see my side of the elephant. My philosophy as a Knight and Minister of the order is not to tell you what I am capable of, rather allow my actions speak for my character. There are thousands of flavors of people here and I don't lay claim that any way is right, but as a premise, I think its good to humble ourselves as only human to remain willing to be flexible to learn as our culture continuously changes. But that comes with knowing that within these roles, I have the obligation to represent the whole while also being reflected by the whole, simultaneously.

I hope the stirring of the waters (conflict) doesn't give a poor reflection as to what is. My only position now is to be an example. This is not to pass the blame on the whole, as the need for accountability is important, but as I tell my brothers and sisters, be the reason someone believes in that essence you seek. For what it's worth, when time passes, I hope it passes with happiness and freedom for those suffering this conflict.

Right View ~ Right Intention ~ Right Speech ~ Right Action ~ Right Livelihood ~ Right Effort ~ Right Mindfulness ~ Right Concentration



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May all beings be happy and free and may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life contribute
in some way to the happiness and freedom for all.
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5 years 6 months ago #326749 by Tellahane
I can't really speak for anyone else but I can offer my point of view from my own experiences and I summarize it all down to false advertising. But not necessarily intentional false advertising. I was that super excited person coming to the temple just as you describe. I saw doctrine I saw ip program I saw a community of people who all believed the same thing. Then I made it up through the ranks and learned it was all bullshit, doctrine was optional, knighthood training was not consistent from one to the next, and I don't mean just the personalization where its based on what someone has already learned or needs to focus on I'm all for that part but what gets focused on in general can literally be anything you want.

The temple is from a guest view a place to train to become real world...dare I say practical jediism. But once you get into the private area's and realize how things actually work its more of a melting pot for a rainbow of colors and definitions for what people call themselves as Jedi, but get to pick and choose whatever pieces they want and then throw the title on it. It's more of a subway restaurant then anything really...you come for a subway sandwich from a subway store and the people next to you are buying pizza's and salads and calling it subway..I mean all the power to them but that's not what attracted me here so to see it not be what you originally hope for or perceive can be almost a sense of betrayal really. Since there really isn't too many other communities of the same quantity out there you can also get a strong since of abandonment out of it, combine the two and you have people who leave and only come back once in a great while or hang around as a guest, or just never come back. Maybe find another community, or you decide that what it is, is still fine and you climb the rank anyway.

I think the face of the temple needs a revisit, I think things could be far more well described and explained earlier on then later if there are people willing and have the time to put into such a project so expectations are set properly from the get go and not left to the individuals imagination as they come in only to be let down. (though not all are let down). Titles can be a sense of self accomplishment but that gets cheapened by the fact there isn't a standard, people enjoy there positive feelings and there's just too many ways they can get let down in the current system.
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5 years 6 months ago #326754 by
Tellahane,
I've considered your points, and all I see is confirmation of what Kyrin posted earlier. You came here with an expectation for what this Temple should be for you, and when it didn't meet that expectation, you were disappointed. You are holding certain people, this Temple, and the entire Jedi community to standards that you feel are appropriate without considering that everyone else is possibly doing the same and disagreeing with your idea of Jedi. Now you choose to call that discrepancy a failure on the Temple's part, rather than accept that this is purposely an environment meant for people to find their own paths while incorporating what knowledge and wisdom we may have to offer.

It is offensive that you would say it is "all bullshit" simply because it did not work for you. It is not "false advertising" simply because you had wishful thinking as you walked through the door. In fact, we specifically discourage TOTJO Jedi from putting too much value in titles and ranks so as to avoid disappointment. Be wary of attachments, learn to let go of all you love, all that jazz you can find all over the Teachings and Maxims.

As you have pointed out, there are any number of other places you can go to inform your own spirituality, or you can build your own that works for you outside of any existing community. Returning here to slam this one only shows me that there is some value to what we are doing here, or you wouldn't feel the need to spend your time disparaging it.

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5 years 6 months ago #326757 by Carlos.Martinez3
What i see - this is from my heart only - is this place at a self paced theme. At your own time , in your own time and with your own time is the way we as humans learn- one of many possible ways. To get mad at the book or the subject is what I notice all to often unused to do. The blame game comes to mind- BUT that’s what I used to do. It was one of the things I had to - un learn to do. This web site didn’t do that for me - although after a time here it did become obvious to me in my real life. This place is s place to share and grow - a living library. I used to get upset at places like this because I 1. Didn’t understand them and 2 . I Just wanted to blame some one else for me not making the effort and take that focus off me. To those who use and apply it the Temple can be a valuable thing. To those who don’t - well... the opposite can be said as well.

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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