What's Wrong With A Pastor of Force Practice

Do we really have a very open faith? If we did, wouldn't we have more pureland Jedi about?

I feel like, if this role was to be made, this role should focus on making Jediism its own thing, rather than its current ambiguous self. Nothing is wrong with what we have now, or before, but as it stands right now, those that call themselves pureland, as I've seen it, have little linking them to each other or their ideas of what this should be as its own standalone faith, rather than a mishmash of other faith's practises.

Arisaig wrote: Do we really have a very open faith? If we did, wouldn't we have more pureland Jedi about?

I feel like, if this role was to be made, this role should focus on making Jediism its own thing, rather than its current ambiguous self. Nothing is wrong with what we have now, or before, but as it stands right now, those that call themselves pureland, as I've seen it, have little linking them to each other or their ideas of what this should be as its own standalone faith, rather than a mishmash of other faith's practises.

Never heard the term "pureland" but I don't live in the US. We have people of many different faiths here, which is part of the appeal of this site. But as you say yourself: we don't need to turn into a mishmash of other faiths' practices - but that's the AP for Reiki Affairs' (or whatever it's called - but it's definitely its purpose) main role. Integrating Reiki practices into our faith. First of all, I strongly object to creating said "mishmash", and what I absolutely don't understand is: why Reiki? What makes that so special? Other than it having a faint resemblance to the fictional Force depicted in the movies?

Pureland is one of the Rites here (along with Abrahamic, Easter, and Pagan). Pureland is those that follow the Force and Jediism as their main faith and as equal truth to any other faith. I don't understand that fully, of course, but there is a section on it in the Forums.

The rites were gone long before you joined arisaig. The focus of totjo became the jediism (pureland) rite and the other rites became SIGs.

This new position should be a SIG imo, if theres enough interest... As others pointed out it implies far too many things that break with our tradition, and essentially confuses the force with reiki, which is at odds with our doctrine 'the Force, a ubiquitous and metaphysical power that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the underlying, fundamental nature of the universe'.

If I may interject. I am aware that this particular position as it is written now focuses primarily on energy work. As hard as it is to believe, that was not the original intent of the position. Energy work in whatever form is just one way in which we connect with the force. It is not supposed to be a privileged way. Let me reiterate that that is not the intent of the position. I am working right now with Synod and others to reformat the description to make this more clear
Thank you for your concerns

None of us, individually, get to say what Jediism is, or what TOTJO beliefs can be. None of us. Not even John. It takes a collective effort to define this movement now, and we don't have anything that separates us from literally any other world religion at this moment except the blasted name.

What that means is that we cannot--and I mean that in the "it's not possible" meaning--privilege one set of beliefs over another in leadership positions without being removed.

So instead of panicking that you think this is some kind of overstep, or cruelly deriding people's beliefs as "fiction" without a proper discourse directly with them, why don't you let the position be activated provisionally and let it prove it's worth or failure?

steamboat28 wrote: and we don't have anything that separates us from literally any other world religion at this moment except the blasted name.

What that means is that we cannot--and I mean that in the "it's not possible" meaning--privilege one set of beliefs over another in leadership positions without being removed.

So instead of panicking that you think this is some kind of overstep, or cruelly deriding people's beliefs as "fiction" without a proper discourse directly with them, why don't you let the position be activated provisionally and let it prove it's worth or failure?

Jediism is hardly a world religion. And yes, there's one absolutely essential point where this religion differs from virtually all others: the focus in Jediism is on the individual, whereas all world religions focus solely on the community and / or the individual's position within said community. These religions were formed to sustain a community by forcing the individual to submit to it as a whole, even if that means giving up all personal freedom and, in many cases, one's life. The absence of that makes Jediism quite unique. I'm completely up to changing the name though.

Also, there's no such thing as a "provisional" position of power in the known universe.

steamboat28 wrote: I see no problem with the title. I see people looking for things to get upset about.

steamboat28 wrote: Bottom line: I think this is either a massive misunderstanding or an intentional roadblock.

Accusations like these are not very becoming of a Knight. There is no grand conspiracy going on here. I understand you have a personally vested interest in this because of your belief but not all share those beliefs and their voices need to be heard in a fair manner just as yours is. I suggest the mud slinging to stop and you spend some time examining your bias.

Not all believe in the force as an actual energy field and if this place, as an organization/church, is to continue to be syncretic, this position, as written, cannot stand. It will only undermine the beliefs of some in favor of the beliefs of the few or the one. This sort practice, of forcing beliefs on others, is why many, if not most of us, left Christianity. It should NEVER be recreated here.

steamboat28 wrote: "Force Practice" is the sum total of all the ways that we, at the Temple, view the Force, from philosophically to mystically. I see no problem with the title. I see people looking for things to get upset about.

The ongoing discussions are not just about inclusion of the word "Force" (which we purposely do not define here), but also the combination of it with the title "Pastor". If "Force Practice" truly does include all of the ways this Temple views the Force, then we already have a Pastor of Force Practice. She is our Pastor, Rosalyn. If she needs assistants, that is wholly encouraged, but once you put a title like this on it, you set precedent for others demanding a similar title for similar roles. Do we then create a Pastor of Military Jedi and a Pastor of Hospice Care? This is unnecessary since we already have special interest groups led by Ministers or Councillors such as the Military Jedi Group or the Those Who Count Spoons Group. Anyone of appropriate rank can request a group be created and moderate it without a title that brings a lot of official baggage along with it.

My fear is that we are taking away from the importance of the Pastor title by applying it to a very vague role that many are unsure about the purpose of.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: Accusations like these are not very becoming of a Knight.

That's going to be an interesting conversation to have with you, honestly.

There is no grand conspiracy going on here.

Could be you're not remembering all the other legitimate conspiracies we've had here.

I understand you have a personally vested interest in this because of your belief but not all share those beliefs and their voices need to be heard in a fair manner just as yours is. I suggest the mud slinging to stop and you spend some time examining your bias.

1. Don't tell me what I believe when you don't know me well enough to know what I believe.
2. My only bias here is a pro-Temple bias, and I'd like to think that's evidenced by the fact that I'm promoting a position that is one of the most inclusive things we've ever had in this syncretic ****-show we call a "religion."

Not all believe in the force as an actual energy field and if this place, as an organization/church, is to continue to be syncretic, this position, as written, cannot stand.

I've already explained why this is a non-issue, because the position was described poorly. Not because the office isn't needed.

It will only undermine the beliefs of some in favor of the beliefs of the few or the one. This sort practice, of forcing beliefs on others, is why many, if not most of us, left Christianity. It should NEVER be recreated here.

The anti-Christian bias in people who feel personally attacked by Christianity is part of what is actually slowing the growth of individuals within this Temple; they spend so much time holding onto hatred instead of learning to deal with their feelings. No one is forcing anything on anyone, and I'm sorry you've misunderstood the situation to such a degree that it's triggered your distaste for another faith. But bashing that faith here won't actually get you any closer to what you'd like, honestly. Especially not with the person you're currently blasting for no reason.