Reminder: TOTJO is global, not just American

MartaLina wrote:
Proteus wrote:
Silas Mercury wrote:
I meant (not because of appearance) because of the fact that most bad things are caused by us.
. slavery
. genocide of native americans
. 2 world wars
. The plague
Sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

*COUGHcough*biblical egypt*coughCOUGH*

ahem.. sorry, something got stuck in my throat there.

Yeah because pointing at someone else to blame has always helped in understanding eachother ,...we are all assholes , all of us , we are HUMAN no matter what colour we have . We are all guilty and we have to stand together to solve this ... how infantile the thinking of some cultures is , is not really my problem anymore , how i can work together and work towards understanding is from now on...

I believe it was only done to show that not just Americans white people do it, not to shift the blame, lol...

And, I read that as it was aimed at Silas, not as a general point to all, lol...

That is not how i read it , but that should be clear by now , and it does not take anything away from my point that we are all responsible for eachother and see eachother as equals , if it was pointed at Silas , it should be adressed to Silas. Pointing out that not only American white people are like that hardly brings people together , and i find it a redundant gesture,

Jamie Stick wrote: But no, you're right, it's not fair to generalize so please, let's continue with the illusion that each individual bears responsibility only for their own actions and not for the shared action or inaction of the nation which they belong to.

You said so yourself, in the USA the dollar buys everything, and among the examples you provide are politicians. How then are individual citizens held accountable for the actions of their governments, when in current times they are largely locked out from any real participation in democracy? How does one among 300 million feel like they can exert any kind of significant effect on foreign policy? I understand that individual actions influence a person's immediate sphere of influence, but the country at large remains unchanged.

Besides, in this skewed scheme of things, the "system" is designed to keep most people locked out of participation not only because of the electoral system, but also because economy is designed to keep the poor and middle class caught up in a constant struggle of work, pay bills, sleep 4 hours, die. I'm not trying to justify political inaction, I just ask how do you propose we break this cycle?

My comment was to show that many of the things America is accused of have existed in other countries long before America ever did them. The point is consistent with the point of this thread - awareness of the rest of the world beyond just America.

Proteus wrote: My comment was to show that many of the things America is accused of have existed in other countries long before America ever did them. The point is consistent with the point of this thread - awareness of the rest of the world beyond just America.

Ok i get that , i hope you get my point too

Proteus wrote:

Silas Mercury wrote: I meant (not because of appearance) because of the fact that most bad things are caused by us.
. slavery
. genocide of native americans
. 2 world wars
. The plague
Sorry. I shouldn't have said that.

*COUGHcough*biblical egypt*coughCOUGH*

ahem.. sorry, something got stuck in my throat there.

*smirks* But they were "white!" *rolls eyes*

But on a serious note: Darfur: Black conflict. Japan against China: Asian. Korea's crazy dictator: Asian. Boko Haram: Black. ISIS: Well okay, although they are Middle Eastern, our census would most likely list them as white....

It's not a race issue, it's a human issue.



Also to point out something in line with sNe1a's comment: Uncle Ruckus was totally racist against Black people.

We are humans descended from animals, with limited perception, intelligence, and experience. We are as emotional as we are logical(if at all). We have been killing and torturing each other since...ever. It's what we are. Its what we do. It will only end when we all have some shared experience, a full belly, and the good sense to dismiss dogma.

rugadd wrote: We are humans descended from animals, with limited perception, intelligence, and experience. We are as emotional as we are logical(if at all). We have been killing and torturing each other since...ever. It's what we are. Its what we do. It will only end when we all have some shared experience, a full belly, and the good sense to dismiss dogma.

Thank you for this wonderfull voice of reason , we need to get our shit together , pointing out eachothers is not the way to understanding and emphathy , thank you brother ...

Lets do this

Jamie Stick wrote:
If you indeed do not regard yourself as the center of the universe simply on the premise that you are American, then congratulations on defying the archetype. America has made itself the global police, sticking its throbbing pecker in other country's faces demanding that they imitate our idea of democracy without a second thought for whether we actually embody a democracy or if it's all a big charade. We are a nation that insists its children should pledge allegiance to the flag at the start of the school day and never stopped to think about how absurdly creepy that is or why it might be immoral and unethical to brainwash children like that. We are a nation where the dollar buys anything, anything from politicians to people. We are a nation that committed genocide to steal land from the indigenous people and then have the audacity to turn people away who are seeking opportunities here. We are nation that bombs villages, hospitals, and farmland telling the people living there that they should be grateful that we are liberating them while we cry "Never Forget" every 9/11. We are a nation that places the cost of healthcare above the wellbeing of our citizens and never once examines the underlying fraudulent corruption of the industrialized medical system and pharmaceutical market. We are nation that has dozens, if not hundreds of philanthropic organizations to raise awareness and funds for cancer treatment and prevention but if a person has a mental illness they are more likely to end up homeless and a victim of violent crime. We are a nation that will step over the homeless on our way to amusement parks.

But no, you're right, it's not fair to generalize so please, let's continue with the illusion that each individual bears responsibility only for their own actions and not for the shared action or inaction of the nation which they belong to.

The US has not always had an international foreign policy like it does today. In fact in the years after the American Revolution until years after the Civil War U.S. foreign policy reflected a regional, isolationist, focus with the long-term ideal of creating an "Empire of Liberty." During this time the US refused to allow itself to become involved with foreign conflicts of any kind. A lot of this was facilitated by internal US conflicts such as the Civil War and the US efforts on continental expansion. It wasn’t until around 1898 that foreign policy shifted to one of imperialism and began to look outward in efforts to acquire new territories to add to the nation in efforts to spread democracy. This went on until the start of WWI where the US was forced onto the world stage to help stop the devastation.

After the first war, the US actually once again retreated back to an isolationist position to avoid further European trouble. However this only allowed for the rise of fascism and Nazism because Europe did not have the resources to stop Hitler’s brutal conquests. The US avoided the conflict for a time but was eventually forced onto the world stage yet again. Now a world power this marked a dramatic shift in the US foreign policy stance, which took on a strategy of becoming a major player in deciding the future course of the world. The US set about destroying the German War machine and ending the oppression and suffering of others at the hands of fascism. The horrors of policies like the Holocaust helped facilitate this.

These efforts were not just military in nature. One of the earliest things the US also did was to help establish a new world organization to replace the ineffective League of Nations. This began under the aegis of the US State Department in 1939. The United Nations (UN) was formed as an intergovernmental organization to promote international co-operation. The organization was established on 24 October 1945 after World War II in order to prevent another such conflict. The United Nations has achieved considerable prominence in the social arena, fostering human rights, economic development, decolonization, health and education, for example, and interesting itself in refugees and trade.

After WWII US policy continued its international stance of no tolerance towards fascism. The Cold war had begun between the US and the communist state of Russia known as the USSR. This facilitated a massive nuclear arms buildup and several tense standoffs including the Bay of Pigs incident in Cuba. Because of incidents like this the US began to realize that this was not a sustainable position and so began efforts to reduce the amount of arms and lower the tensions between the nations. When the USSR finally fell in the early 1990’s this allowed the US to fully change its policy again to one of simple deterrence with a focus on humanitarianism and not a brute show of power.

Today the US foreign policy is one of internationalism that works in cooperation with other nations to promote peace and the deterrence of potential threats by maintaining a large and highly effective military by working in cooperation with the United Nations. This can be divided into two broad categories: military aid and economic assistance. The US does not just stick its nose into other nations affairs unless we are invited or asked to help. It was Saudi Arabia that asked us to help them with the Gulf war. It was the UN that lead the efforts for humanitarian aid to help those in Somalia dying of hunger due to the brutal civil wars there and their dictators policy of genocide; just a couple of examples. In fact the US supplied over 35 billion internationally in humanitarian aid efforts last year alone. The policies and complex political situations that cause intervention in foreign affairs are much more complex than just “sticking our dicks where they don’t belong”. I for find this self-deprecating attitude towards US policy one that is simply not sustainable when you straw man or dismiss the intricate interactions and complex situations involved as well as the intense humanitarian efforts and best intensions involved of people and resource to help others, maintain the vigilance to keep fascism off the world stage like the Nazis or end its rise in other nations and end suffering as much as possible.

Yea it’s a two sided coin and sometimes unintended results are unavoidable but I for one would rather see this policy in place than allow for the potential of another world war or the genocide of an entire people just because “we didn’t want to get involved”. Is that really a Jedi way? To avoid the suffering of others?

Jamie wrote: If you indeed do not regard yourself as the center of the universe simply on the premise that you are American, then congratulations on defying the archetype

I am the center of my universe, everything else is external... The next set of satellites are my wife and kids, the next ring in my Saturn-al ring is my family NOT wife and kids, then friends (Internet and physical), people I dont know immediately around me, then, the inanimate objects like city/state/country/continent...

Just a thought that came to me... Sorry for the derail...

Jestor wrote:

Jamie wrote: If you indeed do not regard yourself as the center of the universe simply on the premise that you are American, then congratulations on defying the archetype

I am the center of my universe, everything else is external... The next set of satellites are my wife and kids, the next ring in my Saturn-al ring is my family NOT wife and kids, then friends (Internet and physical), people I dont know immediately around me, then, the inanimate objects like city/state/country/continent...

Just a thought that came to me... Sorry for the derail...

This.

Claiming that you're not the center of your universe is pretentious and ridiculous. Every act is a selfish one. If you didn't get something out of it, you wouldn't do it.

Perhaps Americans are just more honest about it