Outer Rim

08 Jun 2020 05:21 - 08 Jun 2020 05:22 #352597 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Outer Rim

Finally, to end on a more positive note, now that I have spoken about what negative impact these new developments may bring, I shall ask a question that will perhaps give opportunity for optimism: What actual problems are being addressed by this change and how will it help to resolve them? Or, to make it sound even more positive: What are the benefits of this re-structuring?

In my time here I have noticed that the Temple of the Jedi Order membership has had different needs according to where they are in their Jedi journey.

Some people come to study Jediism as Temple of the Jedi Order teaches it.

Some people come to debate

Some people come looking for support and space for their own expression of Jediism.

I heard someone say awhile ago that this is equal parts church and bar. And sometimes one idea (church or bar) wins out the others and some people get their feelings hurt.

And so we are failing in our mission because we are trying to be all things to all people. We have had this discussion many many times while I have been here.

Some people’s jediism includes fierce debate, some people’s does not
Some people enjoy studying, some do not
Some people consider other aspects of their identity to be integral to their practice and some consider pure jediism the way to go

And all of those individuals can and should be welcomed here. For our doctrine says that we believe “In the positive influence of spiritual growth and awareness on society” and that means all society is welcomed here and should find a place:

But it is a bit like putting fruit inside of soup inside of ice-cream. All are food. Probably all should not be combined :)

To the questions:

For one, there is an intuitive (even if incorrect) interpretation that (a) the Intersectional subforum is a heavily curated "safe space" where it is not safe to speak one's mind freely but where critical discourse and thereby interesting or helpful discourse is discouraged, and that (b) the Outer Rim might as well be what one'd call a "wretched hive of scum and villainy" not entirely unlike a slightly sanitized and non-anonymous version of 4chan. Where it used to be that all discussions were open to everybody, now the appearance of one's name in these sections automatically brands the user as a member of one or both of these newly created "tribes". What is being prepared to soften possible tensions that may or may not grow as a result of this?

The Intersectional Space is a safe space for individuals to discuss aspects of their identity without for example::
Having parts of their identity discussed and branded as mental illness
Being forced to show evidence of something that is integral to their belief before they can even discuss it
Having to be on guard to debate every single detail when they would like to have a conversation
The Outer Rim is not scum and villainy unless its made scum and villainy. Its just a space for free discussion which has, by the way been made public in the same way that the Temple forum has
There is no distinction between those participating in any forum (no special color or what have you) so there can be no tribes

Secondly, where it used to be that topics on matters of faith and identity, matters of politics and philosophy and science, as well as Jediist religious instructions were directly visible to everybody who visits the site, and one short registration form away from being open for participation, thus attracting interested visitors to engage with said registration, now they are all but non-existent to someone who doesn't for some reason suspect that there is more to this place than a meditation dojo and goes out to find what else there is. Not only does a visitor interested in current events or worried about the interface between the religion and their identity not see anything about either on the forums before they register, but even after signing up to participate in the forums in the almost entirely unfounded hopes of finding what they were looking for, they'd need to find out that there was access they could request, choose to request it, and wait until they were granted it, before finally having a justification to be a registered user (at least one rooted in their interest in these discussions) in the first place. Is there data quantifying what fraction of users joins TOTJO for what reason? If yes, am I voicing a valid/relevant concern? If yes, what is being done to compensate?

Choose your adventure is just two threads down. And I’ll be creating a sticky post that addresses different aspects of the Forum soon. As far as I know there is no quantifying data. So we shall see how this works

What is it about the outer rim contents which makes it especially worthy of specific rules and separate status? Any of the topics covered in the outer rim may very well fit in with the Member Discussions forum which is not included in the outer rim despite not being directly related to Jediism proper.

I think I kind of addressed this above, but to re-itereate it has to do with why people come here. Some people come looking for a certain type of experience, a certain type of atmosphere. To be sure we can’t provide all of the atmospheres, but we can try to accommodate those who are just looking for training, debate and support.

Sometimes, in our bid to be a church rather than a bar, mods/admins/councillors will step into a conversation in the general forum to enforce a rule. That never seems to go over well. So we have left the moderation in the Outer Rim up to the members participating in the discussions in the form of “community moderation”. That being the case, people should know what they are getting into.
It may work, it may not. We shall see.

As far as Member Discussions, they are a whole gaggle of different types of topics there. Some of which will be moved to the general discussions area in the Outer Rim, some of which will be moved to jediism, some of which will stay in member discussions when it is repurposed as “Temple Business”

To the other comments. This is new for everyone, myself included. We will be learning, growing and adjusting as we go along.
Last edit: 08 Jun 2020 05:22 by Rosalyn J.
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10 Jun 2020 16:56 #352659 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Outer Rim
I dont know how much the format changes depending on geography or specific technology one uses to access it but in my location and on my device, there is a “recent topics” link which arranges the page by order of post, newest post first, going all the way back to (i assume) the very first thread that was ever made. When i clicked “recent topics” today, its only two pages.

Here are my questions: once a person has been accepted into both the outer rim and the intersectionality areas, will the recent topics function still arrange the page as it used to and will it provide the entire history of conversations here at TOTJO?
How long does it take to be accepted once submitting the request? This may have already been answered but is everyone who submits the application/request form going to be automatically accepted?

People are complicated.

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10 Jun 2020 17:10 #352660 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Outer Rim

So everyone is aware, my computer is on the fritz. New computer is coming Friday. I'm typing on my phone.

New topics should be arranged according to section.

It generally takes between 12 and 24 hrs to be accepted.

The only space that needs to be requested is intersectional because of the nature of material discussed there and the considerable vulnerability needed to authentically engage.

Outer rim is public. When I get my new computer (friday) I will try to make great strides in some updating.
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07 Jan 2021 10:24 #357477 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Outer Rim
It looks like there's been some kind of new update, but I can't find where it was proposed or discussed. The Outer Rim button on the top bar used to direct the user to that subforum, and the Latest Posts panel on the right in that subforum would filter for Outer Rim discussions only, or at least skip all of the Introduction and Journal threads, informing the user instead of the latest activity in that discussion forum they expressed interest in by visiting (I'm setting aside for the moment any opinions about the weight or value of some threads compared to others, just talking about user convenience). This was accomplished by the Outer Rim having its own directory, namely "/or-forum", a URL that now returns a 404 error.

Now this button has been replaced by Family Resources, which unfolds to offer the user one link to the Family Resource Center subforum in a new window/tab, and one link to Family Resources Articles opening in the current tab. Ignoring the two locked (out of 13 total) threads in the FRC, it has on average just above 1.5 replies per thread after existing for over 20 days, and no filter for the right side panel to help direct the user's attention to recent activities in the forum section they chose to go to from a top bar button. The Articles button directs to an empty article repository.

Surely this change has been discussed somewhere behind the scenes and was agreed to be a sensible change the Temple needed, rather than merely some private project of one particular user who happened to author both locked and nine out of the remaining eleven threads in that subforum. Would someone with access privileges to that discussion kindly, please, present a synopsis/summary of the reasoning that led to this change? I'm not asking for a Jediist argument here - while I might myself struggle to find where in the Code discussions of family matters are sparked more strongly than general philosophical topics, I appreciate that in practice we are still people, and mostly non-celibate ones at that, and that one can hardly call an ideology religious if it fails to infect its followers' familial sensibilities. So there is in this sense by all means a need for such a forum, that's not at issue. What I'm asking are these:
  • When did family become a heavier part of this Temple's focus and purpose than general discussions were?
  • Why did the implementation of the new subforum have to be inferior on a technical level (specifically the fiddliness of the top bar button and the right side panel) than the one that was in place for the Outer Rim subforum before?

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07 Jan 2021 11:34 - 07 Jan 2021 11:44 #357479 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Outer Rim
Good Morning

The forum has reverted back to one piece

You should be able to see this

Right below studies

Also I have checked to make sure that all categories are displayed in "latest posts"
Last edit: 07 Jan 2021 11:44 by Rosalyn J.
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07 Jan 2021 17:24 #357486 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Outer Rim
People do what they can how they can.

I am sorry their concerns, resources and abilities fail to meet your expectations gisteron.

Also it should be noted that as a guest, it is quite normal for you to not have access to discussions relating to the running of totjo.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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07 Jan 2021 20:31 #357497 by Lumella
Replied by Lumella on topic Outer Rim
I am reading Zero's first assignment for his apprentice as we read. I am pretty sure i am not supposed to :laugh:

I am a Jedi; I am responsible for how I act. I am mindful of and accountable to my actions.

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07 Jan 2021 20:57 #357499 by Zero
Replied by Zero on topic Outer Rim
Thanks for pointing that out lumella, my understanding is that that issue has been fixed

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08 Jan 2021 10:22 #357524 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Outer Rim

ren wrote: People do what they can how they can.

I am sorry their concerns, resources and abilities fail to meet your expectations gisteron.

Also it should be noted that as a guest, it is quite normal for you to not have access to discussions relating to the running of totjo.

Oh, no, it's not about expectations at all. I was just curious about what happened and why it did. There was a public discussion about the initial forum split, but none about this new reassignment of priority links or reversal of Latest Temple Posts filters. Sorry for asking though. I understand now that if it was any of us second class users' business, we would have seen more information about it without direct query.

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08 Jan 2021 18:15 #357540 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic Outer Rim
I don't have any access to the discussion regarding the family resources section either

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