Question: Policy on requests for information on suspensions

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04 Feb 2019 13:40 - 04 Feb 2019 13:48 #333591 by Rosalyn J
Here I speak in a general, non totjo sense

Justice is a pretty strong word we like to use with others. "They" should get justice. When it hits us though, we like justifying.

These have been useful for me:

www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL30C13C91CFFEFEA6

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Last edit: 04 Feb 2019 13:48 by Rosalyn J.
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04 Feb 2019 15:33 #333598 by ren

Arisaig wrote:

ren wrote: I don't think the amount of times someone gets banned or gets away with it should dictate whether they should get banned or get away with it again.

ren also wrote: In that case it is the severity of the original offense. He did something which eventually ruined totjo. He should have never been let back in as far as i am concerned. There is no one in this world i have more disrespect for, and he knows it. In a way, i am glad he hates me so much.


And how do we work and uphold both these ideologies? Sorta sounds like personal feelings getting in the way of actual justice.


Not at all. He should've remained banned, that's it. I don't judge the other things he does on the basis of this particular shortcoming... i just happen to consider this one a bit too much, and his behaviour since indicates pardon is not warranted. i was the first to support efforts to rescue your relationship with him when it had collapsed. Similarly when others asked you not be awarded the a.div following something you did i can't even remember, I was the first to affirm it should be awarded (or not) on the basis of the submitted work's quality like everyone else. Because i hate politics and fairness isn't applicable only when convenient.

I may be unforgiving of certain things, but won't treat you unfairly over everything else as a result.

And speaking of fairness, one thing to keep in mind is precedent. We have to at least try to be consistent when dealing with different 'offenders'. Someone else here has been banned more often than deserved because the right person pressed the right buttons.
Due to fairness and consistency your future depends on these other two persons a great deal more than you realize. You should help each other out, really.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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04 Feb 2019 15:56 #333602 by Manu

Neaj Pa Bol wrote:

Manu wrote: As far as I am concerned, anyone who is NOT a SPAM account is a valuable contributor. As Ob1 said, even those who are "ruffling feathers" give us all a chance to rise up to the occasion, and deal with it elegantly and effectively, rather that turning threads into personal attacks, whether the openly defiant or the passive-aggressive kind.


Ruffling feathers, fluffing peacock feathers or breast plumes to just piss in each others Wheaties for whatever in god sake is your beef with another is way out of hand... It's not just bad for the parties in conflict but for all as well as subjecting it to everyone that is not needed... Discussion... Great... Debate and Learning.... Great.... The Rest..... I'm Done with it all...


I understand your frustration, and I agree that it is out of line to just antagonize others as a purpose. However, I think most people are not really trying to do so, but end up doing it while getting carried away in the debate dynamic. Funny thing is, it is very difficult to get to that point without someone else fanning the fire. A troll left trolling on their own will soon become bored or will realize they look like a fool. Hopefully there might some sort of lesson for the "troll" there to learn as well, but of course he or she might not.

However, instead of letting those fires die, there is always someone well-intentioned who jumps in to "defend" someone else (a member, and idea, TotJO in general), and plays into the dynamic of the trouble-maker. Remove the oxygen, and the fire dies out on its own.

That said, it is easier said than done. And I do realize our policies need to be in line with favoring the peaceful majority, not the antagonist-full-of-potential outlier.

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04 Feb 2019 16:04 #333604 by Kobos
Spot on Manu, I have been that guy who is trying to defend too many times myself. It is called Trevor's Axiom. Presented here.

markcarrigan.net/2017/01/12/south-parks-...lling-trevors-axiom/

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

I met a strange lady, she made me nervous, she took me in and gave me breakfast. - Men at Work

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04 Feb 2019 16:54 - 04 Feb 2019 16:57 #333606 by Zenchi

Kobos wrote: Spot on Manu, I have been that guy who is trying to defend too many times myself. It is called Trevor's Axiom. Presented here.

markcarrigan.net/2017/01/12/south-parks-...lling-trevors-axiom/

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos


LOL!

So....I'm person C?

If ever there was a time the majority of active Knights (non-councilers) thought I was a detriment to the TOTJO enough to warrant my leave, let it be known. Take a vote privately, or let me hear it over voice in discord, whatever the means. I hold their opinion that highly....

I'll walk away with absolutely no spite, no problem...

My word is my Honor, and my Honor is my life ~ Sturm Brightblade

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Last edit: 04 Feb 2019 16:57 by Zenchi.
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04 Feb 2019 17:28 #333613 by Kobos
It is never always the same person Zen, lol. I have been person A, B, C, and all the others at some point :) . Never meant to point that at you, more just posting a comedic reality of some of what I have seen happen over and over again, but I digress from the point of this discussion.
So, I will secede to others that have solutions or at least know enough of said situation to derive one through conversation.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

I met a strange lady, she made me nervous, she took me in and gave me breakfast. - Men at Work

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04 Feb 2019 17:30 #333615 by Arisaig

Kobos wrote: It is never always the same person Zen, lol. I have been person A, B, C, and all the others at some point :) . Never meant to point that at you, more just posting a comedic reality of some of what I have seen happen over and over again, but I digress from the point of this discussion.
So, I will secede to others that have solutions or at least know enough of said situation to derive one through conversation.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos


Lol, did giggle at someone bringing in Trevor's Axiom.

Wisdom from weird sources, eh? ;p

I think we all, or, at least, all active posters, end up as part of this axiom at some point, if they intend to or not.

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04 Feb 2019 18:42 - 04 Feb 2019 18:43 #333621 by ren
You've got to love the "that's kinda how i got elected" reference from trump afterwards, which is absolutely bang on.


Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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Last edit: 04 Feb 2019 18:43 by ren.
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04 Feb 2019 20:24 #333625 by JamesSand
I can't guess, and have no inclination to read what grand conclusions have been reached thus far in this thread - I just thought I'd loudly ponder why this subject is never an issue at any of the other forums I am a member of.

For some reason, everyone gets along - Spam, Vulgar, or attempts-to-market-something-without-paying-for-ads accounts are quickly warned and then banned.


(I do have a theory as to why those sites all work better and everyone gets along or better (or at least doesn't start grief with people they don't get along with - Focus.

Those forums have a specific theme (for example) if you're not talking about motorcycles (or moto related things - safety, laws, etc etc) the off you trot.

When everyone sticks to talking about the things they have in common, it seems to be an easier time of it.


'course, what is and isn't a motorcycle is reasonably well defined (a few heated threads on the subject of scooters, and three-wheelers aside), so it's easy to manage.

Folk seem to have a hard time nailing Jediism down, controversy ensues.
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05 Feb 2019 05:17 - 05 Feb 2019 05:29 #333659 by OB1Shinobi

Zenchi wrote:
If ever there was a time the majority of active Knights (non-councilers) thought I was a detriment to the TOTJO enough to warrant my leave, let it be known.


Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I see neaj pa bol talking about retiring now so I think I have a decent idea of the circumstances of my last banning.



These two posts bring up another reason i believe in transparency. You know how in weddings they say “speak now or forever hold your peace” and not “send an anonymous letter to the pastor so he can cancel the whole thing”? Its really just a formality but the fact that its done in public is relevant, imo. Theres something about scheming against other people in the shadows that makes my skin crawl. Maybe its just a difference in culture and perspective.... i know that when ive had problems with people both here and in my daily life, ive never had respect for the idea of slinking behind their backs to poison the well against them. Rather, i believe in either directly confronting them or accepting the fact that irritating people exist and moving on.

In another thread i asked something like “how many of you who feel that Kyrin is a bad influence have actually tried to speak to her directly and explain your position?” People wanted to see someone else handle everything, rather than get involved themselevs. Arent we supposed to remove our masks to show ourselves courageous of heart? Doesn't that mean being totally up front with each other and willing to take the heat for our opinions?

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
Last edit: 05 Feb 2019 05:29 by OB1Shinobi.
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