Question: Policy on requests for information on suspensions

More
31 Jan 2019 00:00 - 31 Jan 2019 00:16 #333347 by Nakis
Hello. Long time listener, sometime caller!

Quick question: In regards to appealing or looking for information regarding a suspension or ban, what are the desired methods to be used?

Does the security team have an email address? In the case of a Council level suspension, should the security team still be referenced for information?

I'm mainly asking to better understand how best to direct people asking about their own or other suspensions and if the policy has changed in the past few months. Personally my viewpoint is to send a response to a security team email address and let them be the intermediary for both SecTeam and Council suspensions as that will help keep security in the loop and will help create a single source to ask for information (Security would ideally go through Council secretary to help keep things nice and clean)

Or, is there something in place right now that's preferred?

End goal: Identifying the shortest route for people without access to the forum to send and receive information regarding their account due to bans/suspensions without unduly burdening ancillary personnel.

Licensed Clergy Person
Outreach Team
Master: JLSpinner
Come visit my garden !
Last edit: 31 Jan 2019 00:16 by Nakis.
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi, Kobos, Rex

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 01:20 #333348 by OB1Shinobi
When someone gets banned they should be given at least a summary explanation of exactly why and especiallly they should be informed of how long the ban will last. An appeals process would be nice as well, particularly for a ban that lasts more than a month.

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
The following user(s) said Thank You: Zephyrus, Kelrax Lorcken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 08:31 #333363 by Arisaig
We did have that lovely thread where bans and such could be posted so to spread knowledge of whom, why, and when bans went into effect. Perhaps time to bring that back? It was public, so even banned accounts could see it.

Sword of the Jedi
Knight of the Temple of the Jedi Order
The Fulcrum Knight of the Order of Onyx
Jedi Battlemaster

~ IP I AP I DQS I Knight I Personal ~
Training Master: Zenchi
Apprentice: Open for Application
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kelrax Lorcken

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 15:46 - 31 Jan 2019 15:51 #333373 by Rosalyn J
Hi everyone,

I hear you. I've just sent a message to JLSpinner. If we don't have a standard policy on bans/suspensions, I've asked him to work with the Security Team and Moderators to make one so that there is no longer any confusion as to the process.

Please note that this will not concern things which are a bannable offense, just the process for banning/appeals. Determining what constitutes a bannable offense has hamstrung too many conversations in Council

Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie

Senior Knight, Senior Ordained Minister
Editor in Chief of the TOTJO Times
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Submit articles
Teaching Maitre: Alexandre Orion
How Am I Doing , My Commitment
Kyber,Freja Saol-Wasser, Tobias Giesel,and Jhannuzs

Initiate Journal , Apprenticeship Journal , Clerical Journal , Continued Study
Last edit: 31 Jan 2019 15:51 by Rosalyn J.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nakis, OB1Shinobi, jpadkins, Arisaig

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 18:43 #333383 by Zephyrus
I agree there should be some process. I don’t even really mind people being banned... what i mind are certain executives acting unilaterally without any measure to be held accountable.

I implore the Council to consider making every ban require a simple majority (with a quorum of at least 4 Councillors) vote to carry out. There are no emergencies that can’t wait for a 24 hour vote.

Membership Advocate (not a real title)

Please send me a PM if you feel you are being wronged by the leadership of this site! I am happy to represent, mediate, or speak on your behalf and work with you to resolve any issues.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 19:05 - 31 Jan 2019 19:07 #333385 by ren
When people aren't complaining about council being slow, they're complaining about executives taking executive action. It's pick one or the other.

The last executive action in regard to suspensions is currently being reviewed by the council.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
Last edit: 31 Jan 2019 19:07 by ren.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, jpadkins

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
31 Jan 2019 19:05 #333386 by Nakis
I would ask that this thread remain focuses on the appeals and communication side of the process. While I understand there is a desire for revamping the total process, I would advocate for that being a different thread focused entirely on that topic alone.

This approach here is to address a single function of the Temple and de-cluttering the pipes so information moves smoothly as opposed to reworking the pipes.

Licensed Clergy Person
Outreach Team
Master: JLSpinner
Come visit my garden !
The following user(s) said Thank You: Zephyrus, Kobos, jpadkins, Rex, Arisaig

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2019 00:32 #333400 by Adder
Only Admins can ban/suspend AFAIK, not Mods or Security Officers. The previous process was just; gather evidence, contact person to discuss, if no solution found then Council goes to have a vote, person notified.

Temple Security Team ~ Moderator
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med
'The future is already here, it's just not evenly distributed.'
The following user(s) said Thank You: Arisaig

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2019 01:07 - 01 Feb 2019 02:21 #333401 by OB1Shinobi

Adder wrote: Only Admins can ban/suspend AFAIK, not Mods or Security Officers. The previous process was just; gather evidence, contact person to discuss, if no solution found then Council goes to have a vote, person notified.



Daaaaang, when was that the process? Is this new?

I remember being banned twice - the fist time i replied to someone in the rants thread and wrote something that was challenging and MH edited it. I edited it back. He edited it again, and i edited it back again, and then i was banned. To his credit, he did send me at least one PM which i didnt see until too late, but it was to tell me to stop editing my posts, it wasnt to explain the circumstances of my ban. Not that you can check you PMs when youre banned, anyway lol.

Second time, i said something MH thought was impolite (and it was) and he talked down to me like i was his kid or something lol so i told him he sucked as a security because the way he handled situations just made them worse - then i was banned. My comment was definitely rude but im not sure that i broke any actual rules either time. I dont know how long a vote takes but i know my bannings happened awful quick, especially the second one. I had been asking questions about Kyrins ban at the time and gotten the strong impression that “the desired methods” of inquiry was “dont!” Asking questions in public seemed to irritate people.

In neither instance was i given any notification about the exact rule breech i committed nor any kind of notice or explanation at all about the bans, including their lengths. Into the second month of my second ban, i emailed the temple to find out how long i was banned.

Im not saying all this just to cry about my experience lol or to suggest i didnt do snything wrong, i certainly wasnt being kind and loving when i got banned. Im just trying to explain the way it happens from the perspective of the person experiencing the ban. One moment youre active and the next you cant log in anymore. Thats it. Theres no message or email or anything like that. You just cant log in. It tells you that you dont have an account iirc and the system recognizes your IP so it wont work to make a different account (yes of course i tried lol).

Beware of unearned wisdom.
-Carl Jung
Last edit: 01 Feb 2019 02:21 by OB1Shinobi.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Erinis

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
01 Feb 2019 02:53 - 01 Feb 2019 03:12 #333406 by ren

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Adder wrote: Only Admins can ban/suspend AFAIK, not Mods or Security Officers. The previous process was just; gather evidence, contact person to discuss, if no solution found then Council goes to have a vote, person notified.



Daaaaang, when was that the process? Is this new?

I remember being banned twice - the fist time i replied to someone in the rants thread and wrote something that was challenging and MH edited it. I edited it back. He edited it again, and i edited it back again, and then i was banned. To his credit, he did send me at least one PM which i didnt see until too late, but it was to tell me to stop editing my posts, it wasnt to explain the circumstances of my ban. Not that you can check you PMs when youre banned, anyway lol.

Second time, i said something MH thought was impolite (and it was) and he talked down to me like i was his kid or something lol so i told him he sucked as a security because the way he handled situations just made them worse - then i was banned. My comment was definitely rude but im not sure that i broke any actual rules either time. I dont know how long a vote takes but i know my bannings happened awful quick, especially the second one. I had been asking questions about Kyrins ban at the time and gotten the strong impression that “the desired methods” of inquiry was “dont!” Asking questions in public seemed to irritate people.

In neither instance was i given any notification about the exact rule breech i committed nor any kind of notice or explanation at all about the bans, including their lengths. Into the second month of my second ban, i emailed the temple to find out how long i was banned.

Im not saying all this just to cry about my experience lol or to suggest i didnt do snything wrong, i certainly wasnt being kind and loving when i got banned. Im just trying to explain the way it happens from the perspective of the person experiencing the ban. One moment youre active and the next you cant log in anymore. Thats it. Theres no message or email or anything like that. You just cant log in. It tells you that you dont have an account iirc and the system recognizes your IP so it wont work to make a different account (yes of course i tried lol).



I... did not know that. Although an exec ban is not an abnormal way of going about it, they used to be the most common bans in fact... it's just that nowadays we get screamed at for one thing or another, there are constant calls for safe spaces and such and it simply, imo, does not work as we end up banning for a little temporary peace and quiet.

I banned steamboat without explanation following his cruel treatment of other members. It used to be bans calmed people down but nowadays they just cause more screaming. We didn't have this sort of people years back. We used to be the only community that had never banned hannigan.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
Last edit: 01 Feb 2019 03:12 by ren.
The following user(s) said Thank You: OB1Shinobi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.