Church, Clergy, Disciples, etc...

Hello Quadgnim.

"The man behind the microscope has this advice for you: Instead of asking what it is, Just ask, 'what does it do?'"
- Alan Watts

Quadgnim wrote: This might seem really dumb to some, but I have a concern/question about how TOTJO is organized. I'm a believer in the force and Jedism as a way of life. However, I'm anti church, anti preaching, anti cult, anti religion, etc... I don't follow Jedism because I need something greater in my life to comfort me, nor do I need to know someone is looking out for me or protecting me or that there is an afterlife to save me.

For me Jedism just is, I feel it every waking moment, and in my dreams. Its part of me, and something I can't refute. Even if I never saw Starwars, I always new I felt different than others. Starwars just helped put a name to it. I was born and raised Jewish, but never felt right. My friends were of many different religions and nationalities. I don't know of any that broke away from their respective churches the way I have, and I'm not looking to go back.

I love the idea of a Jedi community, where I can collaborate with others, share ideas, and make friends. I'm bothered that this site seems to be making it a lot about a religion instead of a belief. I don't need clergy, titles, priests, bishops, deacon's or anything else resembling a church. To me a church dictates control, power, oversight. For me this is the exact opposite of what Jedism is all about, and I'm concerned you might not be right for me. Have others had similar thoughts, or discomfort with how things are ran, and if so I welcome any comments and conversations around it all before I decide if I'm ok with it or not.

Thanks

I don't need to rehash what anybody else has said but just a couple questions.

1. Does this problem exist within ToTJO, regardless of whether or not it has potential?
2. Do you know what the word "church" means? Or that the majority of what is recognised as a church is in direct contrast to what you defined?

Its just an organizational structure for me also - reflecting its legal status as an actual religious institution.

Perhaps the point your saying is your Jedi path is not something you do, but everything you do... and I agree. Religion for me is any practise done 'religiously' by an individual for spiritual development, and a church is just a meeting place for people with the same religious paths. My Jedi path is my religion, and it is everything I do, and the Temple is to facilitate like minded adherents in sharing a community and the benefits that might bring.

A number of discussions have popped up lately about TOTJO in respect to religion. I'm not going to pretend that I have anything insightful to add, but I will say this much...

It seems like some people also forget that a "church" can serve an important organizational function for a group. TOTJO as a religious institution allows legal recognition of the organization by governments and other authorities. It legitimizes the community in the eyes of the law. There are clergy here who can perform legally recognized marriages and other ceremonies that are not merely symbolic, but also contractual. Some wish to participate in these activities and others don't.

I, for one, think this is a welcome addition to the other functions that this temple serves for me. I'm sure others will believe that we should not seek or require legal recognition. That's what's great about being a Jedi. We don't have to be on the same path. We simply agree to respect each other when our paths cross.

Use this place for what you feel you need. You will either be satisfied, or the Force will lead you elsewhere. The journey is yours, and your alone.

the only problem that i will take is i see those of rank begin to use the im more holier then you attitude which i havent yet so its all good ))

Quadgnim wrote: If however the structure is more like a traditional church with all of us listening to sermons without an open back and forth conversation then it's not for me. I don't want someone telling me what to feel or how to act.

As Associate Pastor for the clergy I am confident to say that myself and Alexandre (Pastor) won't ever be behaving in the way you mentioned above.