Church, Clergy, Disciples, etc...

This might seem really dumb to some, but I have a concern/question about how TOTJO is organized. I'm a believer in the force and Jedism as a way of life. However, I'm anti church, anti preaching, anti cult, anti religion, etc... I don't follow Jedism because I need something greater in my life to comfort me, nor do I need to know someone is looking out for me or protecting me or that there is an afterlife to save me.

For me Jedism just is, I feel it every waking moment, and in my dreams. Its part of me, and something I can't refute. Even if I never saw Starwars, I always new I felt different than others. Starwars just helped put a name to it. I was born and raised Jewish, but never felt right. My friends were of many different religions and nationalities. I don't know of any that broke away from their respective churches the way I have, and I'm not looking to go back.

I love the idea of a Jedi community, where I can collaborate with others, share ideas, and make friends. I'm bothered that this site seems to be making it a lot about a religion instead of a belief. I don't need clergy, titles, priests, bishops, deacon's or anything else resembling a church. To me a church dictates control, power, oversight. For me this is the exact opposite of what Jedism is all about, and I'm concerned you might not be right for me. Have others had similar thoughts, or discomfort with how things are ran, and if so I welcome any comments and conversations around it all before I decide if I'm ok with it or not.

Thanks

The difference between TOTJO and what you are referring to usually includes things such as dogma, which TOTJO doesn't institute, nor does it institute authority of any belief upon anybody here. The concept of Jediism as a religion is simply one of personal congregation, to come together to celebrate and learn about both the similarities as well as the dynamic varieties of what we each believe and the experiences we have through them. Titles here represent one's personal progress in learning about themselves, as well as commitment to contributing to the community through service. In any case, the religious approach, in even this form as well as any other form, is completely optional to each member. There is more than plenty general philosophizing and scientific discussion and even simple down-to-earth socialization about things among the temple.

In the end, the experience you get from being here is what you choose to make it.

Any organization needs leaders. Even in video games, guilds and corporations, need good leadership in order to be successful.

I haven't been here long, only since May, but I've found that the 'titles' designates more of a role than a rule. SOMEBODY has to write the sermons. SOMEONE has to maintain the servers. *shrug* You get out of this what you want to. You can read the sermons or not. It's up to you. I've never seen any of the clergy stomping around and crushing us littles underfoot. I've only seen them offer bits of insight.

Take of it as you will. No one will make you do anything

Yeah I see a lot of christianity bleeding into the jediism to the point some people call this christian buddhism ,but there is another side. Not everyone is like though, although it is ingrained in some people here so hard they can't seem to escape it. I myself follow more of a Bushido, spartan, success psychology. Just lead by example and have your ideas challenged. If your right others will want to follow your example. In following the warrior way I would say:

Maybe you're right. Maybe we aren't right for you. Why are you so concerned about that? I'm not concerned about it at all.

Go then! Fly to another site, or to another forum, or to another master, or wherever. Don't waste your time with things that don't resonate with you. You're life is getting shorter and you're spending it trying to convince yourself to change or to make others change... Doesn't seem right to me.

Thank you all for your comments and insight, I appreciate all the feedback.

Connor Lidell, I'm sorry you're so quick to dismiss. That wasn't my intent, just the opposite. You commented "I'm trying to get others to change" and that doesn't sound right to you. Please reconsider what I asked, because I beg to differ, as my intention is the exact opposite. I'm concerned the idea of a church is to make people change, instead of allowing people to find their own way. Most everyone on this site seems to be open to following ones own path, which is ideal in my opinion. I only asked the question because I fear a Church or a Cult is trying to control, dictate, and force ones beliefs on others. So far I've not seen anyone doing that, so I questioned why have the Church notions in the first place. You don't need Church to follow religion and if we take Jedism into our hearts do we need a church to do it? I'd rather see Apprentice Jedi, Jedi Knights and Jedi Masters as a distinction of ones accomplishments. To me fewer levels is better, as Jedi no one should need the gratitude of a bigger title. This is just my opinion, and as a new member to the site, I'm trying to understand what others believe and what the culture and intent of the site is.

Quadgnim wrote: Connor Lidell, I'm sorry you're so quick to dismiss.

I don't tend to waste my time.

I'm concerned the idea of a church is to make people change, instead of allowing people to find their own way. Most everyone on this site seems to be open to following ones own path, which is ideal in my opinion.

Then you're misinformed. Not how this site works. Of course, I know you stated that earlier. I'm not questioning that.

You don't need Church to follow religion and if we take Jedism into our hearts do we need a church to do it?

This is what I'm talking about. If you have to ask this question, then why bother?

Obviously, there has been a church here since 2005. Hundreds of [active] members have found use in the church. Maybe I'm quick to dismiss, but I'm just not the type of person to give you the answer. I'm also not the face of the church. hahah. Which, is good.

If I were you, I would just either do it... or not do it. Take the training. Or, don't. Be in the church. Or don't. Either way, you will see the purpose of it in time.

Others here will give you the answers you want. I won't, though.

I'm not sure Connor was dismissing... Connor himself is a member of a number of different Jedi sites and speaks from experience when he says there are alternatives to TotJO.

At the same time, let me say when I arrived here I absolutely shared your perspective, but lacked the eloquence to express it as well as you have. It may surprise you to learn (or you may think I'm a complete sheep for admitting), less than three months later I am undertaking seminary myself.

The clergy here are not like the clergy I have found elsewhere. As a central part of our path, defined here as "religion", is that it's personal and unique to all of us, the clergy are essentially charged with counselling those in need, and deepening our understanding of the Force. They are the essayists of our beliefs and the keepers of important parts of our doctrine .

I won't try and convince you, but suggest you spend some time here, perhaps experience some live sermons in chat and see what you make of it. For me, all my (numerous) misgivings were answered within a week or two. And, if not, as Connor suggests we're not the only Jedi site out there - if you don't like what is a central element of this particular site, why not have a look at some of the varied alternatives? I'd already be sad to see you go and hope you won't... but there's no point in coming to a religious Temple to bemoan religion

Yes! Listen to tzb. He is much nicer than me. hahaha.

I felt a bit awkward that you'd already replied while I was typing, ha ha!