Structure of new IP

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19 Jul 2012 17:17 #67465 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Structure of new IP

ren wrote: personal tools is integrated in the intro in my current version of the IP, I don't really consider it an exercise/lesson.


Oh yea... I forgot...

It would be nice if they worte a little something about those...

People have atendency to skip right to the first leson, and when I point out "It said xxxxin the introduction", they say, "oh, i didnt read that"...


the one, the only, ren wrote: - Intro (with personal tools and the like, pointers to how to use the site as sometimes people dont know)
- Merge Campbell and religions stuff since it's related. keep it as a simple, introduction to comparative relgion type of course.
- Critical Thinking ( see this thread ) (maybe include stuff on freethinking? obviously related) (also things to to with empiricism rationalism, etc)
- Philosophy and Metaphysics (drop mctaggart she's quack)
- Jediism, history, classic texts, various beliefs(This will reuse things learned in the metaphysics lesson), totjo doctrine, etc
- Meditation, Emotions, how to be a better Jedi type of thing.


Mc Taggart might be a quack according to you smart people... But, I liked it, and from the journals Ive read, she makes sense to many of us... Just lack of factual backing...

I wish there was a layman's book about this, that wasnt too technical... I like to see this backed by fact, and easy to read... Suggestions?

I think that we ought to touch on Jediism in the Campbell/ religion area, as we are drawing the comparison...

We could conclude it in the "how to be a better Jedi" (whats the point of jediism?)

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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19 Jul 2012 17:33 #67467 by V-Tog
Replied by V-Tog on topic Structure of new IP

Jestor wrote: Mc Taggart might be a quack according to you smart people... But, I liked it, and from the journals Ive read, she makes sense to many of us... Just lack of factual backing...


I liked it. It comes across as a little like 'The Science Of The Force For Dummies'...but for some of us, that's kind of what we need in the early stages.

Could there possibly be an alternate text or lecture for those who are more knowledgeable about this stuff? Leave it up to the individual to choose which to do? It's always going to be hard to cater for all levels of understanding.

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19 Jul 2012 18:03 #67468 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Structure of new IP
Here is the order I would put them in (and reasons) as well as some thoughts on various lessons etc

We are a Jedi site so lets begin with the ideas behind our inspiration and just general thoughts on the types of things we teach:

1. Campbell

Not only is this very prominent in the inspiration behind Star Wars but it actually probably teaches the most important lesson of all "Follow your bliss"

If we are ever going to tell someone something about what Jedi do and believe, I personally would always want to keep that said as the first thing

"Do what makes you happy and harm none on the way"

2. The Book

Again I would have this immediately after as it teaches much of the philosophy behind Jediism as we teach it


So we've got the basic 'Jedi' ideas down... now we move on to what a Jedi does/should do:


3. Meditation

Most people consider this to be very important to their spiritual learning so it would make sense to include this fairly early on

4. Personal Tools

I can understand why ren just included them into the introduction, they aren't the most important lesson really but I think it is good that they are covered and have their own part

5. Critical Thinking

I shall invoke: "Knowledge; yet Wisdom" for my justification :laugh: I think this is very important for any Jedi to at least have a basic grasp on and to make sure that they have a focus on challenging and engaging with what we offer and not just blindly accepting it as 'The Truth'


Now that they know the sorts of things that a Jedi probably does as well as the basic ideas of what Jedi believe we move onto some Jedi specific or rather Jedi orientated ideas:


6. The Field

Despite her perhaps avian-like qualities (lol ren) I would place this here. I personally would remove it :P but people do like what she says and I at least found it interesting so it's probably worth keeping

I would however like some kind of more dedicated 'lesson' part to it. I.e. something that says something about what metaphysics is etc and that some people view The Force as being similar in nature to 'The Field' or what have you

Also please make a mention that it has yet to be affirmatively proven scientifically and that it isn't fact...

7. Breakdown

This is more on Jedi specific learning, it's fairy Star Wars orientated in my view and I would perhaps rather we shift some of it to learning about the TOTJO Creed instead for example


Now the know what Jediism is, lets make sure they know about other religions

8. World Religions Essays

I can understand people who say it might be good to have this at the start but to be honest I think that since we're a Jedi site and they come on here to learn about Jediism then we should probably do that to begin with

What we have said so far (in my ordering) is "This is Jediism as taught here at TOTJO". They now know all they need to know and if they want to continue then they will. All the most 'Jedi-ish' important material has been covered from here on it's (not less important) but less fundamental ideas about Jediism


Know they know about everything that's on offer religion wise (or a good deal of it) lets just get a few ideas about some subjects:

9. Back catalogue

I think we should review what's included in here. It might be good to keep the ideas about the lightsaber and physical fitness etc (if only to please those pesky realists :laugh:) because they are quite important from a practical stand point

But maybe changing a few of the 'essays' etc to cover a broader range? I don't have any specific ideas yet just throwing it out there


So this turned out to be longer than I thought, but those are just some ideas I have

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it except for one man, but the tree falls on that man and kills him, does the man dying make a sound?" - Jon Lajoie

Apprentice: Desolous , Xaii
Master: Br. John

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19 Jul 2012 23:20 #67500 by Mark Anjuu
Replied by Mark Anjuu on topic Structure of new IP
If we're talking structure, then I would prefer to have the Jediism section towards the front. That way we can reinforce what Jediism is about (and what it isn't - i.e. role-playing, etc) so people can then gat an idea of how everything else follows that philosophy. It would then be easier for us to reference following lessons back to the topic of how it relates to Jedi.

Rev. Mark Barwell OCP
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  • Arch-Bishop of the U.K.
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  • Paganism Special Interest Advisor
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19 Jul 2012 23:23 #67502 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Structure of new IP

Mark Anjuu wrote: If we're talking structure, then I would prefer to have the Jediism section towards the front. That way we can reinforce what Jediism is about (and what it isn't - i.e. role-playing, etc) so people can then gat an idea of how everything else follows that philosophy. It would then be easier for us to reference following lessons back to the topic of how it relates to Jedi.


Could you be more specific on what you mean by 'Jediism section'?

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it except for one man, but the tree falls on that man and kills him, does the man dying make a sound?" - Jon Lajoie

Apprentice: Desolous , Xaii
Master: Br. John

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20 Jul 2012 00:05 #67521 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Structure of new IP
He means you kind of ignored the previous posts? :D

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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20 Jul 2012 00:09 #67524 by Mark Anjuu
Replied by Mark Anjuu on topic Structure of new IP
Yes, check what I suggested and ren elaborated on. A section about Jediism, what it is, a brief history of TOTJO, the Doctrine of the Temple, key aspects such as the Creed, etc.

I think that should come first in the IP. Such an in-depth examination of Jediism would also serve to further discourage the casual role-player types...

Rev. Mark Barwell OCP
  • Pastor of the Order
  • Vice President, Bishop and Councillor of TOTJO
  • Arch-Bishop of the U.K.
  • GrandMaster Knight of Jediism
  • Paganism Special Interest Advisor
Apprentices: Leena, Darren, Slydogstags, meatloaf, Rosalyn J
Former Apprentices: Karn, Angelus, Adder, Phortis Nespin
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20 Jul 2012 02:36 #67552 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Structure of new IP

I think that should come first in the IP. Such an in-depth examination of Jediism would also serve to further discourage the casual role-player types...


Ideally it should start with Jediism and then just elaborate on that. The IP should really be about few things:

- Intro to totjo, who can help, etc
- The force (and therefore metaphysics/philosophy that is related)
- Jedi values (and therefore codes, morals, ethics, totjo doctrine) (and related philosophy, sociology, etc)
- How to be a better Jedi (meditation, constantly learning new things, controlling emotions, critical thinking, etc)

The real problem is that to be better at "the force" and "Jedi values", it'd be best to first do "how to be a better jedi". But to better appreciate that you'd have to do "the force" and "jedi values" first... The Jediism dilemma: everything about it is so awesome that whenever you study one aspect of it you feel guilty for missing out on the rest :D

Things like campbell/religions or jediism history are secondary. They're interesting in explaining where it all comes from but not essential. That's why I wanted it at the end. Once people have gone through philosophy of religion and metaphysics they'll go through campbell easily, the religion exercise will make more sense and I think the students would be able to look into significantly more exotic religions than the ones currently on offer.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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25 Jul 2012 06:33 #68047 by hellisforhorses
Replied by hellisforhorses on topic Structure of new IP
I think it would be interesting if the ip had a bit on the student's SEG, and have the student expand on what their particular group is and why. Maybe make an essay out of it. Just a thought.

"You can't open the book of my life and jump in the middle. Like woman, I'm a mystery." -Malcolm 'Mal' Reynolds


Master: Senior Knight Akkarin

Rite: Pure Land

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25 Jul 2012 07:25 #68049 by Akkarin
Replied by Akkarin on topic Structure of new IP
It is my understanding that we changed the name of the Special Interest Groups from 'Rites', because people felt too pressured to be in one

I wouldn't want to renew pressure on them by making them choose. There isn't really a difference between Jedi in any of them really so I don't think making such a distinction in Jediism is very important at least not at this stage perhaps

"If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it except for one man, but the tree falls on that man and kills him, does the man dying make a sound?" - Jon Lajoie

Apprentice: Desolous , Xaii
Master: Br. John

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