IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson

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07 Aug 2019 17:18 #340985 by Manu
Replied by Manu on topic IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson

Williamkaede wrote: Peterson's body of work is generic, rehashed self-help garbage, flavoured to appeal to young men, with a tacked-on political angle that leads to tribalistic nonsense. He's disrespectful to the existence of social phenomena that we as Jedi need to be aware of, that villify the people that we as Jedi should be here to help. He deals in half-truths, conspiracies and outright lies, and I shudder to consider what he'd be like in a session with a client. A less than ideal individual to be put in the TOTJO Library.

It's a bad fit for the Jedi in general, but honestly not surprising to see it being discussed here. I think this would be a mistake and a waste of time.


I value your opinion, William, because I know this is your field of expertise. Could you elaborate more? Who does he vilify? And how does his work encourage tribalism?

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07 Aug 2019 17:44 #340988 by Williamkaede
His use of disingenuous, silly terms like "cultural marxism" creates an easily applied label to people he and his fans disagree with. An outgroup - othering the inferior "them".

His very vocal opposition of certain concepts, such as respecting transfolk's pronouns. Knowing the effect this has on wellbeing and suicidality of trans individuals, it's borderline negligent and I shudder to consider what he's like in session. Regardless of his intentions, the groups out there that have flocked to him, like incels after his comments on preventing school shootings by assigning angry, angsty, at-risk men "enforced mates". These aren't Jedi groups and they certainly don't have Jedi values.

All I really see is people catching onto the flavour of the month in favour of anything of real substance and value.

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07 Aug 2019 18:17 - 07 Aug 2019 18:19 #340989 by VixensVengeance

Williamkaede wrote: His use of disingenuous, silly terms like "cultural marxism" creates an easily applied label to people he and his fans disagree with. An outgroup - othering the inferior "them".


Arent you doing the exact same thing here by claiming your "superior" Jedi title?




Williamkaede wrote: His very vocal opposition of certain concepts, such as respecting transfolk's pronouns. Knowing the effect this has on wellbeing and suicidality of trans individuals, it's borderline negligent and I shudder to consider what he's like in session. Regardless of his intentions, the groups out there that have flocked to him, like incels after his comments on preventing school shootings by assigning angry, angsty, at-risk men "enforced mates". These aren't Jedi groups and they certainly don't have Jedi values.

All I really see is people catching onto the flavour of the month in favour of anything of real substance and value.


I dont claim to know all the issues at work here but I think at least one of your points is biased in a way that I commonly see. Peterson has never been opposed to using various pronouns and has even admitted that if requested he will use them. What his issue was is the idea that this sort of practice be legislated by government. So in that regard he is not anti lgbt but pro free speech.

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Last edit: 07 Aug 2019 18:19 by VixensVengeance.
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07 Aug 2019 18:28 - 07 Aug 2019 18:29 #340991 by steamboat28

VixensVengeance wrote: I dont claim to know all the issues at work here but I think at least one of your points is biased in a way that I commonly see. Peterson has never been opposed to using various pronouns and has even admitted that if requested he will use them. What his issue was is the idea that this sort of practice be legislated by government. So in that regard he is not anti lgbt but pro free speech.


*whispers into the mic* Dehumanizing other people isn't "free" speech.
Last edit: 07 Aug 2019 18:29 by steamboat28.
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07 Aug 2019 18:32 #340992 by rugadd
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07 Aug 2019 18:44 #340993 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic IP suggestion: Jordan Peterson
JP's underlying philosophy has several problems (watch the peterson v zizek debate for a good laugh at both of em), but imo we could appreciate any one idea on its own merits, no?

Also calling yourself a Jedi is in no way disenfranchising anyone else.

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07 Aug 2019 18:51 #340994 by steamboat28
Also:

VixensVengeance wrote: So in that regard he is not anti lgbt but pro free speech.

Jordan Peterson during a debate about pronouns wrote: I am not going to be a mouthpiece for language that I detest, and that’s that...


Note he's responding to the language and not the bill, here.

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07 Aug 2019 19:10 #340996 by VixensVengeance

steamboat28 wrote:
*whispers into the mic* Dehumanizing other people isn't "free" speech.


Actually it is free speech, at least in the US.

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07 Aug 2019 19:57 - 07 Aug 2019 20:49 #340997 by Kelrax Lorcken

VixensVengeance wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:
*whispers into the mic* Dehumanizing other people isn't "free" speech.


Actually it is free speech, at least in the US.


Hate speech and incitement are explicitly not protected, just thought that was noteworthy

Also that same freedom extends to people who criticize what you say, it's not a shield against being told you're wrong

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Last edit: 07 Aug 2019 20:49 by Kelrax Lorcken.
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07 Aug 2019 20:59 #340998 by VixensVengeance

Kelrax Lorcken wrote:

VixensVengeance wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:
*whispers into the mic* Dehumanizing other people isn't "free" speech.


Actually it is free speech, at least in the US.


Hate speech and incitement are explicitly not protected, just thought that was noteworthy

Also that same freedom extends to people who criticize what you say, it's not a shield against being told you're wrong


I never said incitement. For example you cant yell fire in a crowded theater but you are incorrect about hate speech. It is actually protected speech under the first amendment. I also never said others could not tell me I am wrong. But it is futile in this case as I am actually just quoting constitutional rights.

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