January 6 2021 chaos, how to practice the Jedi Way under conflict?

More
08 Jan 2021 15:37 #357529 by Kwitshadie
Thank you Alethea for your wise words
I’m sure that a lot of us practicing a Jediism are neutral politically to the annoyance of the crowd. You are in good company. :)

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering ~ Yoda

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 15:37 #357530 by Rosalyn J

Manu wrote:

OB1Shinobi wrote: Of course we should always be willing to offer the olive branches of empathy and two-way, open dialogue with those who recognize the value of such interactions but for those from whom no quarter will be offered, none should be given (I am not encouraging physical violence, here - im simply pointing out that the "nice guy" approach only works with those who are willing to play nice, themselves).


I appreciate the input, and agree with you. I am in no way advocating doing nothing out of some sentiment for a moral high ground. Nor am I naive enough to expect everyone to play by the book.

What I intended to point out, is the whole "to someone with a hammer, everything looks like a nail". You (the proverbial "you", not you Obi1) set out in some crusade to defeat oppression, and suddenly everyone looks like an oppressor to you. Gross generalizations, the media telling the story, and social media filtering what you only want to be showed, feed the mob mentality that cements tribalism, and suddenly everyone in a given group ("the left", "the right", "the patriarchy", "the rich") is deemed an enemy.

We should be vehement about our individual activism, but be on guard about this "dark side" that is quick to join us in battle.


I would like to like this post many many many times.
Carefully researched and understood activism is to be commended on an individual and group level. What I've seen (from my point of view) is tribalism and silo creation
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alethea Thompson, Manu, Lumen

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 16:27 #357533 by TheDude
The best we can do, I think, is practice compassion and understanding for all those involved.

I might be alone in saying this, but I was not particularly concerned when the rioters entered the capital. I have heard a thing or two about DC security and there wasn't a doubt in my mind that every single person working there that day would be just fine. Delaying what amounts to a ceremonious count of already counted votes does not bother me much at all. Additionally, there have been several instances in recent history when protesters stormed political rallies, federal courthouses, and even the senate; everything was fine.

What does concern me about all of this is the extrajudicial killing of an unarmed woman who was then decried as a terrorist by our media and our representatives in government.

A woman bled out in the capital. She didn't have to. She didn't harm anyone. Her name was Ashli Babbitt. She was an Air Force veteran, a mother, unarmed; the only crime she committed was entering public property when she wasn't supposed to. Maybe she broke a window, maybe not -- imo nothing she did deserved a death sentence. And certainly she doesn't deserve to be called a terrorist.

Neither does the officer who shot her deserve to be decried as an evil villain, nor a hero. As far as I can tell, he was a man with a gun who was afraid. When our decisions are clouded by fear, they're often not very good decisions. I'm sure he genuinely thought he was in danger, even if he wasn't.

There will be times when the actions of some people will challenge our ability to be compassionate towards them, and times when we are expected to cast judgment on others -- often people we don't even know, people we've never interacted with even once. Choosing to be compassionate towards everyone involved in these situations is, I think, the most virtuous path available to us.

Please don't run into crowds of angry people with a lightsaber.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kwitshadie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 17:10 - 08 Jan 2021 17:22 #357535 by Rex
Just gonna add a couple points to the Ashli Babbitt fact pattern:
If you've watched the video of the incident, that checkpoint is one en route to the scif (the place where they chat about aliens etc.), so this isn't just your generic "I'm going to disrespect the nation, threaten our democratic process, and ransacked the capitol" but approaching a much more serious national security threat. It would be prudent to withhold judgment about the incident before more details are available, especially in light of how gentle law enforcement was in general (especially considering one DC police officer was killed)

Additionally, what these people did was not a simple breaking and entering. Being in the capitol itself without permission is a crime. If any level of coordinated premeditation is proven, it would constitute seditious conspiracy. There are a wide variety of charges which could be levied against Ms. Babbitt, so while if she was arrested she wouldn't be given capital punishment, her behavior in concert with the violence of the group was in no matched disproportionately by law enforcement response. Describing her as a terrorist would be accurate in a conventional sense; she was a qanon conspiracy theorist who attempted via violence to influence the democratic process from confirming the results of a democratic election.

Knights Secretary's Secretary
Currently Apprenticeless
TM: Carlos Martinez
ὁ δὲ ἀμυχηδόν νεξέταστος βίος γίγνομαι βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
Last edit: 08 Jan 2021 17:22 by Rex.
The following user(s) said Thank You: TheDude, Zero, Jake Nislan, Kira, Kwitshadie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 18:06 #357538 by Alethea Thompson
How do you know that she was headed towards the SCIF? I'm really asking that question- I don't know where they have their SCIFs up there, so I'm curious how you found out. :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rex

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 18:13 #357539 by Rex
One of my college friends is a staffer and talked a lot about it in a group chat. So I have no personal way of verifying it myself, but it makes sense in my totally unqualified opinion

Knights Secretary's Secretary
Currently Apprenticeless
TM: Carlos Martinez
ὁ δὲ ἀμυχηδόν νεξέταστος βίος γίγνομαι βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alethea Thompson, Jake Nislan

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 20:15 #357542 by dwagoonie
For me personally, I keep my politics separate from ToJo and any other site that I deem as "spiritual" or "self improvement". Once I cross the line in political talk, that site becomes ruined for me. Or at least, tainted.

Your world view works for you. My world view works for me. We will not change each other's mind today. But we can still show each other the bridge that meets in the middle.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 21:02 - 08 Jan 2021 21:02 #357544 by Manu

dwagoonie wrote: For me personally, I keep my politics separate from ToJo and any other site that I deem as "spiritual" or "self improvement". Once I cross the line in political talk, that site becomes ruined for me. Or at least, tainted.


I've found most people's "spirituality" becomes more evident when they discuss politics.

“The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.” - Joe Klaas
Last edit: 08 Jan 2021 21:02 by Manu.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rex, Lumen

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 21:11 #357545 by dwagoonie
- smile, slight nod

Politics is a reflection of what a person already believes or feels. If you speak about these without the politics you get the same answer.

Your world view works for you. My world view works for me. We will not change each other's mind today. But we can still show each other the bridge that meets in the middle.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Manu, Rex

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
08 Jan 2021 22:44 - 08 Jan 2021 22:46 #357547 by TheDude
Rex, I must respectfully disagree about the response being proportionate. Let me say this is all just my opinion.
It would not be extremely difficult for everyone working in the building to evacuate the area via the tunnel network beneath the capital. No one had to be put in danger.
While it may have been unlawful to enter the building, that’s not something I think is of great moral importance; it is a non-sacred building paid for with taxpayer dollars, as is everything in that building including any information stored there. These things are the property of the people, as is all government property. I don’t think entering a taxpayer funded area without permission is a bad thing at all; honestly I think the illegality of it is somewhat laughable, a remnant of a bygone era of kings and lords who owned the land and ruled as superiors to the people. The people who work in DC are not superior to us. They are servants of the people, and it is the people’s House.
When the option is available to retreat without any loss of life, that is preferable to taking violent action. Even if property damage occurs, there is no excuse to kill. And while some rioters may have killed a police officer, I highly doubt it was that woman specifically. She can’t bear moral responsibility for actions other than her own, and his life was not more valuable than hers. Even if it were her who did it, the appropriate response is not to open fire and avenge a fallen comrade or anything of the sort. The option with less bloodshed is always preferable.
Putting a woman who was murdered while unarmed in the same category as Al Qaeda or ISIS is not appropriate, in my opinion. I have no evidence to suggest she was physically violent at all, besides her simply being present.
Last edit: 08 Jan 2021 22:46 by TheDude.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jake Nislan

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: KobosBrickZero