Gun Control

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29 Jul 2019 21:16 #340706 by ZealotX
Gun Control was created by ZealotX
How many shootings have to happen before we all agree that not everyone in the US needs to be allowed to own a gun? There are plenty of people who don't have voting rights because of felonies. In the US you have to have a license to drive a car. Why? Because cars can kill people. No, wait. Let me say that correctly. Cars don't kill people. People driving cars kill people.

Cars are fairly well regulated. You have registrations and VIN numbers that can connect a car to a driver. Not only do you have to prove that you know how to drive a car and obey all the traffic rules but you also have to pass a vision test. If you want to drive certain other vehicles you need a special license. What's wrong with doing the same thing (at least) for guns?

Along with proving you understand gun safety and maybe run some kind of shooting range obstacle course, applicants should have to pass some kind of test for mental stability that measures their reaction to perceived threats. For automatic weapons there should be a special license that you have to apply for. And you should have to prove that you actually need it. I think there should actually be an organized militia that is tax funded and then those people can be armed according to the constitution while everyone else can use the library checkout system when they go to places in which guns should be used.

What do you think? When will enough be enough? Why can't we regulate guns like we do cars and trucks? How many more innocent people have to die?
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29 Jul 2019 21:31 #340707 by Tellahane
Replied by Tellahane on topic Gun Control

ZealotX wrote: How many shootings have to happen before we all agree that not everyone in the US needs to be allowed to own a gun? There are plenty of people who don't have voting rights because of felonies. In the US you have to have a license to drive a car. Why? Because cars can kill people. No, wait. Let me say that correctly. Cars don't kill people. People driving cars kill people.

Cars are fairly well regulated. You have registrations and VIN numbers that can connect a car to a driver. Not only do you have to prove that you know how to drive a car and obey all the traffic rules but you also have to pass a vision test. If you want to drive certain other vehicles you need a special license. What's wrong with doing the same thing (at least) for guns?

Along with proving you understand gun safety and maybe run some kind of shooting range obstacle course, applicants should have to pass some kind of test for mental stability that measures their reaction to perceived threats. For automatic weapons there should be a special license that you have to apply for. And you should have to prove that you actually need it. I think there should actually be an organized militia that is tax funded and then those people can be armed according to the constitution while everyone else can use the library checkout system when they go to places in which guns should be used.

What do you think? When will enough be enough? Why can't we regulate guns like we do cars and trucks? How many more innocent people have to die?


For the same reason that 1 in every 40 cars you see is someone driving without a license and no one ever finds out about it until they do something wrong. I can say for me personally about half of the car accidents I often go to someone was driving without a valid license. tests, certificates, etc they work for the average person, but if someone is committed to causing an offense it doesn't stop anything, and it never will.
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29 Jul 2019 22:01 #340709 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Gun Control
However people who aren't committed to breaking the law will get a license, insurance, have the car inspected, pay good money for the necessary work, etc.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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29 Jul 2019 22:14 #340710 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Gun Control
The right to Life, liberty, property, and the means to defend them are as natural as leaves on the trees..

Freedom isn't abstract, it's a legal reality. Driving isn't a privilege, it's a right. Just like voting, vaping, fishing, hunting, rain-collection, and a myriad of other non-aggressive activities. America needs gun control as much as it needs vehicular regulation. Not at all..

If you want the perfect govermnent that will essentially keep society in Utopia. You might as well let them chip you.. that's what they want anyway..

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30 Jul 2019 00:25 #340714 by Squint
Replied by Squint on topic Gun Control
Where is driving a right? What statistics do you have to show that we don't need vehicular regulation. What would stop over-fishing if it wasn't licensed?

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30 Jul 2019 02:56 - 30 Jul 2019 02:57 #340719 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Gun Control
So, I'm going to share a bit of information with a link, and I have to warn you "don't take muh guuuuuns" folks that you're not going to like it, but it's the facts, so, live with it.
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30 Jul 2019 12:43 #340725 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Gun Control

For the same reason that 1 in every 40 cars you see is someone driving without a license and no one ever finds out about it until they do something wrong. I can say for me personally about half of the car accidents I often go to someone was driving without a valid license. tests, certificates, etc they work for the average person, but if someone is committed to causing an offense it doesn't stop anything, and it never will.


A great response. However, let me push back a little. A lot of drivers who get caught without a license have had licenses at one point; whether they've been suspended or or forgot to renew or whatever. I've been there, done that; even went to jail for it. Cars are not only regulated through licensing but also registration and title. When a car changes hands we can see a record of who has owned it. And let's be clear, cars are not designed to kill people. Cars are designed to protect people in case of accidents. On the other hand, guns were actually designed to kill. For a gun the accident is when it doesn't fire.

In the case of a speeding ticket it, of course, follows the driver. In the case of an accident the vehicle's owner is responsible. So let's say you get caught with a gun that doesn't belong to you. You should pay whatever fines or consequences for that. But if you kill someone then whoever the owner is should have to account somehow whether it is financially (responsible for the funeral costs) or actually serve time. Because one of the problems you mentioned has a lot to do with us, as a society, not caring who we either sell guns to or what happens after the gun is sold. But there is a reason why a car dealer wants to make sure you have insurance before they hand over the car. Guns are not held to anywhere close to that standard. And like I said... they are designed to kill people.

So is it too much to ask that guns be treated the same? License, registration, title, testing, etc. ? I'm not against everyone owning guns but rather I'm for people being responsible with and for whatever they own. And if it can kill people it should be regulated. Even food is regulated. If something is wrong with a cabbage they can trace it back to the farm it came from. Would this prevent gun violence? I do believe so. A lot of people drive without a license because they have to in order to get to work and other places. But if gun owners and manufacturers were afraid of the consequences of losing track of their guns, being sued for wrongful death, etc. My keys have a keysmart thing that my keys are on that has tile built in so I can find my keys. They can keep track of guns if they really wanted to.

We will never know how many lives have been saved because of street lights, stop signs, cross walks, side walks, turn signals, seat belts, drunk driving laws, sobriety check points, and the list goes on and on. I think its safe to say and I think we can all agree that we've prevented "some" casualties related to driving. And all of these things work together to protect human life. I may have driven with a suspended license but I was also punished for it and although I'm not the safest driver aside from barely tapping another car in a parking lot at age 16 I've never hit another vehicle. But it's like we care more about property damage than human lives and it is frustrating to me that we're not doing more.

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30 Jul 2019 12:51 #340726 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Gun Control
I'm also glad that Ren brought up insurance. Cars have to be insured for the possibility of causing damage. What if every gun had to be insured? What if the insurance company had different rates based on a risk assessment? What if insurance companies periodically checked on you and offered lower rates for complete psych evals? You want a fully automatic AK-47 for some reason? Fine. Pay $100/mo. for insurance. Even if one argues it's their right to own a gun, there's nothing that says you have to be able to afford it. But honestly, AKs should only be sold to military. I wouldn't even let police officers buy them. There's just no domestic purpose and if someone says "militia" I already said I'm in favor of creating an official one so that those people can buy sufficient weapons to actually do what it says in the Constitution.
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30 Jul 2019 12:53 #340727 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Gun Control

Squint wrote: Where is driving a right? What statistics do you have to show that we don't need vehicular regulation. What would stop over-fishing if it wasn't licensed?


More animals would go extinct and possibly the whole ecosystem would be in danger if hunting and fishing weren't regulated. I mean... did anyone see The Lion King?
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30 Jul 2019 13:04 #340728 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Gun Control

Uzima Moto wrote: The right to Life, liberty, property, and the means to defend them are as natural as leaves on the trees..

Freedom isn't abstract, it's a legal reality. Driving isn't a privilege, it's a right. Just like voting, vaping, fishing, hunting, rain-collection, and a myriad of other non-aggressive activities. America needs gun control as much as it needs vehicular regulation. Not at all..

If you want the perfect govermnent that will essentially keep society in Utopia. You might as well let them chip you.. that's what they want anyway..


never heard of a right to rain collection. I would ask which amendment is that in but I don't want to come off cheeky. A lot of the things you mentioned have stipulations and requirements. You can't vote for 2 years after a felony. You can't vote outside your district. There's a whole host of regulations that politicians exploit in order to gerrymander and suppress the vote from certain communities. Vaping. Vaping what? A right? Marijuana is still illegal according to federal law. But let's just leave all that aside.

I see you like freedom and I'm for that except freedom has to be balanced with responsibility. "Drink responsibly", "Drive responsibly". If you don't do these things there is a penalty. But let me stop because I agree with you. America needs gun control as much as it needs vehicular regulation. And I will think about that next time I put my seat belt on and stop at a traffic signal or use the painted lines on the road to regulate where I drive. Without all these boundaries and safeguards there would be chaos. And even if you were free you wouldn't feel that way stuck in miles of traffic because of accidents and people driving on lawns to get around other people, etc.
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