Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed

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29 Jul 2019 13:27 #340680 by ZealotX
There are many people who tried or wanted to defend Trump after certain things he said that they felt perhaps COULD sound racist but actually weren't. It's kind of like someone defending their drunk uncle, believing he's not a bad person so maybe he really didn't mean it 'that way'. And I do believe that there are a lot of people who really don't believe they are racist in any way but who support the MAGA agenda because they've been led to believe that it's about fairness and that many people are underpaid or underemployed because of issues like immigration and affirmative action. And I get it. People with a platform tend to use it to make that argument to try to get people angry and afraid.

And because of the pervasiveness of this whole idea and the divisions to which it is causing, not only in the United States, but please open your eyes if you cannot see it.... across the globe, I think these conversations, although it may be uncomfortable for some, are desperately needed. Because we shouldn't be guided by extremes and by fear and hatred and anger and animosity. We need to rise above that with common purpose. But in order to do that we need to see where that commonality intersects and how people are using whatever differences we have against us (all). I want all of us to try and see clearly how we might be manipulated by politics and the interests of a few.

Can there be any doubt, currently, with all we have seen and heard, that Donald J Trump is a race baiting racist? Is this still a question in anyone's mind? Ask yourself, "if he WASN'T a racist" and people were kept talking about all these comments, wouldn't he stop making them? Wouldn't he think about how his words might be perceived and just not say it? Even other racists would have pivoted by now and either clarified misstatements or simply shut the hell up. When you say certain things that racists believe... they know it when they hear it. So when THEY hear "she should go back" they respond with "Send her back". And of course Trump pretends he didn't support that chant except for when you watch the actual video he stands there soaking it in and wait until it dies down before continuing. He's pitting people against each other on purpose because it benefits him.

When I say the MAGA agenda is racist a lot of people will balk at that because they agree or tacitly approve of it. And in their minds they don't have to be racist to support it so why does it have to be racist? I sympathize with this to some degree. You and your family might be hurt by the current economy (that's doing so well) and you just happen to be perceptively in the same group that should benefit from MAGA policy changes. At least the "promise" of MAGA is to target certain symptoms that people widely believe to be causing all or some of their problems. And let's think ahead. First generation Mexican immigrants probably aren't a threat to your jobs. Second generation, maybe. What about the third generation? or Fourth? But that second generation is American. Right? Same way as white immigrants like Melania come here and become Americans. And she even brought her parents. But that's okay. There are a lot of Canadians here; even taking very high demand limited occupancy jobs in Hollywood. But who cares about them? Who cares about the Northern border. All the focus is on the South. Why is that? If it's not about race then what's it about?

We compete with other Americans for money. It's called Capitalism. That's the game. Affirmative Action is a handicap that only benefits a fraction of people from a group that lives with the negative affects of our history. And now, as part of MAGA, the US is kidnapping and putting kids in cages, some of whom are dying, creating a situation where we should be sued and found liable to pay reparations and/or create some policies to try and benefit those kids based on what we, as a country, are doing to them.

We hear all the time... "pick yourself up by your boot straps... get an education". In other words, "compete for it. Earn it." But now that people are doing that certain people feel threatened. Shouldn't they... instead of complaining and trying to blame others... shouldn't they simply get a better education? Shouldn't Trump's base simply go out and rack up insane amounts of debt to get masters degrees? Why not do that since its so easy and since everyone else should do it in order to get over whatever hurdles they may be facing?

But racists don't think that way. They believe they're special and deserve special treatment. A lot of jobs come from knowing people who know people. That's the way it's always been. For a long time women and minorities have had great difficulty penetrating that club mentality. Someone had to believe in you and give you a chance (sometimes) to prove others wrong. So policies were put in place to increase the number of people who would be given a chance.

“take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or natural origin.” John F Kennedy

Since the system was previously skewed to benefit white men, introducing more fairness would benefit everyone but simply not have increased benefit for white men as it did before. How can one be against this statement by Kennedy? In my opinion, and I could be wrong, but I think it's because commentators on the right have been saying that whites are disadvantaged by this. That's not true. Whites are simply not advantaged by this which, in the minds of those who want to hire their friends and family and other whites, is taking away an advantage-hence a disadvantage. But no, it's about fairness and equality. If black people were the majority of employers or Asians or Mexicans it would be unfair if so many whites couldn't get jobs because it was partial about qualifications but also about who you know. The MAGA agenda spins things like this to make whites think the system is being unfairly imbalanced in favor of minorities and maybe that was okay as long as whites are in the majority. But what if they lose that majority? Then what? Or is that what the fear is really about? But if we're all Americans what's there to be afraid of? Won't we all simply act in the best interest of our nation? What? If not race, if not identity politics, is the motivation behind MAGA?
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29 Jul 2019 15:17 #340685 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed
Racist?? I don't get much of that from him.. it just looks like media spin to me..

He's a pawn for the American Imperialists.. this is bigger than Trump or MAGA. He was never supposed to win.. even he knew that..

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29 Jul 2019 15:42 #340689 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed

Uzima Moto wrote: Racist?? I don't get much of that from him.. it just looks like media spin to me..


how much are you actually listening to him though? Honestly?

And this is the opposite of some kind of attack. I'm saying this because when Obama got elected I, like many others, stopped paying full attention to everything he said and did. When you're on the opposite side everything they say matters and you tend to dig into it more. When you're on the same side I think the tendency is to just assume your guy is okay and everyone's beating up on him because they don't like him.

And I think we've gotten used to that and so when someone is really crossing the line it's actually harder to see it objectively.
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01 Aug 2019 01:12 #340770 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed
Trump appealed to people who were told that when they discriminate against other races it's bad, but when their race is discriminated against, it is positive.

On the other side they had Hillary campaigning on a platform of 'women should do what these few women say they should' and 'positive' discrimination.

It's no surprise he won.

The idea that something negative can be positive when different people are affected is ridiculous. It's like saying killing all Mongols is 'positive genocide' because their ancestors killed loads of people.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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02 Aug 2019 18:39 #340831 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed

ren wrote: Trump appealed to people who were told that when they discriminate against other races it's bad, but when their race is discriminated against, it is positive.

On the other side they had Hillary campaigning on a platform of 'women should do what these few women say they should' and 'positive' discrimination.

It's no surprise he won.

The idea that something negative can be positive when different people are affected is ridiculous. It's like saying killing all Mongols is 'positive genocide' because their ancestors killed loads of people.


I think there are two groups of people who effectively see things the same way but for different reasons. And trying to pull one group away from the other in terms of voting power is difficult.

One of the issues that many on the left have with many people in one of these groups (let's say group A) is that they don't tend to see how privileged their group actually is because that level of privilege has been so normalized and baked in that it is unnoticed in every day life. And since it hasn't really been taken away one doesn't feel the difference between having it and not having it.

Group A could argue this privilege doesn't exist except that Groups B and C know it does (B, racists. C, "woke" liberals)

This privilege is like breathing oxygen. It's just not something you have to think about until you are in an environment with less air.

I said all that to say this. The current system is still very much unfairly skewed towards white men in America. Many of the best jobs are about who you know, not necessarily your qualifications. Harvard, Yale, these are also social clubs in which you can network. Golf clubs... are big networking opportunities. The fictional law firm in the show Suits basically only hired Harvard grads. That type of thing happens. People hire their friends, family, or members of other social circles and refer them to other people in positions of power. This happens all the time. And it's standard operation in many fields and companies all over America.

The truth is that poor whites do not benefit nearly "AS MUCH" as middle and upper class whites. Whites in extreme poverty may not feel a benefit at all without being able to spend a year in the shoes of their black counterpart in extreme poverty in order to realize it could be worse. You could be black.

I think for those people it seems like other groups are probably equal with them and must be treated equally by society. They assume that, because things are hard for them, that they are only just as hard for Blacks and Hispanics. And so if there is a policy aimed at protecting another group that has been traditionally discriminated against they feel like it's unfair.

But they're not seeing the whole picture. There is no race called "Poor Whites". And although they may have it rough if they were more educated and qualified there's nothing preventing them from getting better jobs like there is for many black people who can get passed over for a job just because of their name. Affirmative Action doesn't make everything fair for blacks and other minorities. It only helps to combat the real problem that typically is either widespread or institutional.

At the end of the day, taking away an advantage seems like discrimination but its not. It's the opposite. There is no such thing as jobs that only black people get hired for because of Affirmative Action. But I get it. People want to blame something for their condition and pundits have offered up minorities as a scapegoat. This has been done before. So I think the idea that its either one race or the other is part of a narrative that is meant to divide us. That narrative comes from people who control media outlets and therefore it comes from money.

The same whites that benefit from white privilege the most, who hire their friends and family and frat brothers and college roommates, and on and on... those are the people preaching to the poor that the immigrants from the south are invading and taking their jobs and even though they don't have the same education blacks are unfairly being given other jobs that "should" belong to them. But why? Because they view the country as belonging to them and so all jobs by default are theirs. There is no doctrine or policy that says black people benefiting from Affirmative Action aren't qualified to be there. That assumes the same company couldn't find a qualified black applicant and therefore had to hire someone less qualified.

When you take the reality of how many jobs are distributed in this country and then factor in this same stereotypical belief about black people being less qualified than whites in general, if hiring managers simply had the same biased opinion, then that means without Affirmative Action they wouldn't even seriously consider black candidates. Hence... why we have it in the first place and why its still needed. The real question is why are these rich and high paid pundits so willing to give poor whites another race to target.

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02 Aug 2019 20:04 #340835 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed
So we all know (or should) that MAGA originates from Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan used the similar slogan "Let's make America great again" in his successful 1980 presidential campaign. To be fair, Bill Clinton also used it in his 92 campaign. But we all know that MAGA doesn't refer to Clinton era policies but rather Reagan era policies.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/0...ichard-nixon/595102/


"As for Reagan, it is really unfair to take one statement from a man’s past — one that goes against every statement he ever made about black people — and try to argue that it makes him a racist, especially when the man is no longer alive to explain the remark. It’s a bad remark, but it’s far from the total picture." - spectator.org/on-ronald-reagans-racism/

I thought it would be important to include this statement. I think it conveys how a lot of people believe, that you can make a statement calling black people monkeys but still somehow not be racist. This article goes very far in trying to present Reagan in the exact opposite light. But this is how racism escapes scrutiny and remains alive and well even though its almost 2020. People don't want to confront racist views and stereotypes and things that indicate their level of racial bias. They want to make the racists jokes but not be considered racist. They want a definition of racist that sets a higher bar than their behavior identifies.

Basically, racism has to be very overt and almost comical in order for these whites to recognize it. Why? Perhaps because they've said some things too and want to enjoy the same benefit of not being seen as a racist.

When you take language like that and apply it to parenting then maybe you wouldn't want your little girls having babies with black boys. This happens a lot and is condemned a lot by white fathers. But what's the problem with it if you aren't a racist and your stereotypical views are more for fun than anything else?

When you take that language and apply it to jobs, why would you hire a so-called 'monkey' to do a job that you need a smart skilled professional to do?

When you take that language and apply it to banking, why would you give a loan to a so-called 'monkey' to start their own business?

When you take that language and apply it to housing, why would you want a so-called 'monkey' living in a place you own and bringing your property value down simply because other whites don't want to live near one? And so they move further out of the cities, taking their money with them, and creating policies that allow their money to support only their local schools.

When you take that language and apply it to public policy, why should a so-called 'monkey' get a benefit from Affirmative Action when "more qualified" whites could do the job?

When you take that language and apply it.... apply it.... the result is racism. The result is discrimination from the dominant (in power) culture. This language wasn't spoken among mixed company; wasn't spoken to a room full of African Americans, Hispanics, or Asians. It was spoken in secret to another white man. And it is here, in isolation, that these views persist. It is here in isolation where these mentalities fester and that other white man thinks its funny because he's white too and probably doesn't really know many black people or sympathize with them.

But they know they're SUPPOSED TO.

It's politics. This article written in defense of Reagan was written about his political career as if that was his whole life. Of course it wasn't. Of course he had thoughts and feelings he wasn't about to share with every American. This is why the concept of the "dog whistle" exists; so that people can signal to other like-minded people without coming off as being racist in any overt sort of way. Their ability to hide their racism becomes a survival tactic of racism itself. And then black people have to be paid to come on TV to tell people why and how something's racist.

Ultimately, it is when you apply Reagan's racism to his actual MAGA policies that you reveal what the MAGA agenda is about. Likewise for Donald Trump.

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03 Aug 2019 00:31 - 03 Aug 2019 00:54 #340845 by Uzima Moto
Replied by Uzima Moto on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed
First off, the BBC hid a known pedophile for years. Their articles aren't without bias..

As for voting, it's weak. Americans have the legal right to abolish their govermnents..

Also, as a man with his eyes open, there is no real privilege. Unless you count the difference between house a field slaves privilege..

I don't expect white folks to not take care of their own. The problem is black folks don't do each other like that..
Last edit: 03 Aug 2019 00:54 by Uzima Moto.

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03 Aug 2019 01:44 #340846 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed

Uzima Moto wrote: First off, the BBC hid a known pedophile for years. Their articles aren't without bias..

As for voting, it's weak. Americans have the legal right to abolish their govermnents..

Also, as a man with his eyes open, there is no real privilege. Unless you count the difference between house a field slaves privilege..

I don't expect white folks to not take care of their own. The problem is black folks don't do each other like that..


I've been reading your posts, scratching my head, and than in this one you talk about your "eyes are open" and frankly it explains a lot.

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03 Aug 2019 04:29 #340854 by Deimos
Replied by Deimos on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed
I don't know why this is on a Jediism site to begin with, but here we go. I think the reason why jobs are primarily occupied by white people is because we make up 76.5% of the country. And in regards to the racist jokes, you only mention white people making racist jokes. What about black people? Or asian people? If they made the same joke, wouldn't they be considered racist? Because it seems to me that no definition has been established yet in this forum. I define it, for example, as any decision and/or judgement based solely on race. I'm open to debates like these as long we establish a base line and keep it civil, and discuss ideas rather than people's opinion and simply attack people willy nilly. Sound fair?

-Dei'mos

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03 Aug 2019 05:25 #340856 by Kelrax Lorcken
Replied by Kelrax Lorcken on topic Racist POTUS; MAGA revealed

Deimos wrote: I don't know why this is on a Jediism site to begin with, but here we go. I think the reason why jobs are primarily occupied by white people is because we make up 76.5% of the country. And in regards to the racist jokes, you only mention white people making racist jokes. What about black people? Or asian people? If they made the same joke, wouldn't they be considered racist? Because it seems to me that no definition has been established yet in this forum. I define it, for example, as any decision and/or judgement based solely on race. I'm open to debates like these as long we establish a base line and keep it civil, and discuss ideas rather than people's opinion and simply attack people willy nilly. Sound fair?


Not really.

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