Problems in Watts

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16 Nov 2021 19:17 #364122 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Problems in Watts
I always find it interesting how people’s minds work. How they interpret what is written or said by another.

I think maybe it is because we, as a people, seem to want to find deeper or hidden meaning in things? Or maybe we’re just jaded by life, trained to see things from a certain perspective. I don’t know.

I believe Watts was making a satirical observation regarding those that would consider themselves “more” civilized. Or place themselves in a self-imposed position of moral or mental superiority to those that might be able to accept that not everything has some deeper meaning to ponder. IE, the intellectuals, internet philosophers or today or other annoying group that always feel they have the answer or are right because they read something or thought about it more. I am pretty sure Watts was not comparing one civilization to another that might be viewed by the so-called civilized peoples as less civilized.

I also find it amazing that as science and discovery advances we discover that maybe not so much of what our predecessors knew is just a bunch of hoopla. But that is a different conversation all together.

As to my words, “We, the human race, cannot be over populated. We can reach appoint where a single planet can no longer support the numbers of people on it. But all that means is that we will then be required to expand our occupied territories.” That is literally all I meant. As population expands we will reach a point where the planet can no longer produce enough food, air and/or even water to support the population. Even if all other things were disregarded as superfluous and crops and living space was all that covered the earth. I do not want to see it that way! But that is all I meant.

We can clean the “house” all we want. We will still reach a point where the planet cannot support the life on it. Unless you’re a proponent of mass extermination? Maybe some kind of lottery? History didn’t view that well when the Nazis tried it. And no one looked fondly at China when they implemented population control. Well, no one that I am aware of. Maybe some did like it, cheering in dark corners. :P

And I like I was telling Vincent Causse earlier, no matter what we do, there will come a time where the sun reaches the end of its life cycle. And if we haven’t found a way to populate other celestial bodies, outside our own solar system, we will go extinct.

In referring to the first part of this reply….
“I was discussing the disparity between the way in which most human beings experience their own existence, and the way man’s being and nature is described in the sciences. I was pointing out that in such sciences as ecology and biology, ecology for example describes and studies the relationship between all organisms and their environments. The way in which they describe human, animal, and insect behavior is in flat contradiction with the way in which most of us experience our thinking, our action, and our existence. We have been brought up to experience ourselves as isolated centers of awareness and action, placed in a world that is not us, that is foreign, alien, other, which we confront. Whereas, in fact, the way an ecologist describes human behavior is as an action. What you do is what the whole universe is doing at the place you call “here and now”. You are something the whole universe is doing in the same way that a wave is something that the whole ocean is doing.” –Watts

This is a part of a series of Watts lectures which I find to be a good read and can be found here…
Click for link
Or use...
alanwatts.org/1-1-9-man-and-nature-pt-1/

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17 Nov 2021 09:31 #364135 by Vincent Causse
Replied by Vincent Causse on topic Problems in Watts
While reading Watts i can feel the sarcastic satiric in the air it self. The shocking truth are part why i like him that much, nowadays too many people or do not tell the scientific truth or twist it or make imaginary political correct, people pleasing answers. It is true that all things have an end, it s just sad that we re hurrying the outcome. About the "civilized" and "un-civilized" or "savage" usual concept it is not a new thing certainly, a little study can explain why in some area of earth farming and technology came to be and in other didnt. But while the not modern technological society lacked technology, the so called modern lost knowledge, so no one can judge really. What is sad is to be supremely sure that one way is better than the other and that is one thing that us modern settlers, judge of all way of life and intelligence. Of course someone like Alan Watts could not refrain from hurting such an ego and it is hurting even more in an age where some people believe that life cannot be enjoyed with out the internet and the gadget that permit to access it! My little advice , read it , re-read it as i did, not always easy to understand what is he on about, breath it in , read in between the lines, feel the sarcasm and satire and admit that us humans are just another species on earth , what mainly separate us from our animal cousins is our capacity to write, tell stories ,create and create our own problems, think about the futur and of course over thinking which lead us to making a lot of wrong decision. Happiness is just a meditation time away

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17 Nov 2021 11:36 #364136 by Wescli Wardest
Replied by Wescli Wardest on topic Problems in Watts
what mainly separate us from our animal cousins is our capacity to write, tell stories ,create and create our own problems
- Vincent Causse

Not trying to disprove you. Just interjecting things I have run across and/or found over the last so many years I find interesting… that “might” cause you to rethink some assumptions.

First, I know of at least one animal psychiatrist that would disagree about animals not creating their own problems. She is convinced that they suffer a myriad of psychosis not dis-similar to humans. Not sure that I always agree with psychology and/or some methods of reasoning and accepted theories. But, I am not a psychologist. More like a skeptic :P

My wife showed this to me and I found it fascinating. Dogs communicating using preset buttons. And it is in cooperation with ongoing studies at University.



One thing I got from this is not just that dogs CAN learn to communicate but they can realize at least patterns that we will respond to. Kind of like them training us! LOL Not really. And I wonder how much actual communication animals have with each other that we do not realize or understand.

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17 Nov 2021 12:12 #364137 by Vincent Causse
Replied by Vincent Causse on topic Problems in Watts
This is so much off topic :-) but this is mind blowing. Well dogs are one of the 10 most intelligent beings on the planet. I m sure we could be surprised of the level of intelligence of most animals if we gave them the chance. One of the problem i believe is that animals are way shier than we re, they will not show us their skills that easily. Fear must be one of the factor. But surely evolution is striving toward one goal that is higher intelligence, of sorts, it doesnt have to be humans like intelligence.
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