Chi?

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29 Aug 2015 08:39 #201231 by Jeriko
Replied by Jeriko on topic Chi?
I have a little experience here in that my father was a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner and at his most focused he was a rather good teacher.

Connection to his chi centre, (the dan tien, which is located 2 inches below the naval) was indeed strengthened through years of chi Kung, form repetition and pushing hands.

From what i remember Chi kung was one of the easiest things to fit in to a busy life as in its essence it is standing still but it kind of meditation as well. I would say though that i do not believe it's utilisation can be achieved through reading.

My father studied and trained for over 16 years and taught for a further 4-6 and i still remember him coming home and getting me to be his training partner after class because he had made discoveries and advancements that he needed to test.

I'm not a small guy and i have gone through doors and almost through windows from a simple and soft 1 inch punch from my father. The strength that can be obtained is unbelievable and difficult to convey in words. I think you need to feel it to understand.

I believe the book Cultivating the Chi by Chen Kung may be of use to you.

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30 Aug 2015 14:18 - 30 Aug 2015 14:29 #201361 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic Chi?
Zippy12! Pleased to meet ya! :D

Yes... chi, or qi... same thing, different spelling (Japanese say 'ki' - in Japanese, "chi" means "blood").

But Qi is largely misunderstood in the west. First off, the biggest misconception is that "Qi" is the pushing force that is in effect when one sparring partner sends it out at the other, barely even touching him (if at all), and sends the opponent flying out of the ring. The truth is, that's really not quite how it works.

Qi isn't quite the bio-electromotive force itself, but it does facilitate it. There are a few other factors involved, Qi being just one among them, but all of those factors taken as a single concept in speech, is also collectively referred to as "Qi" (and not incorrectly so), referring to the entirety of the bio-electromagnetic field as a whole under that one umbrella term, and therein lies the cause of the misconception.

If you would, try to imagine that old, fairly well-known, school science demonstration which depicts magnetic fields. The teacher takes a piece of paper, holding it with some iron filings spread about on one side, and takes a bar magnet and holds it directly under the piece of paper, flat up against the surface underneath.

I'll try to attach an image here...



Now, as you can see here, the bar magnet is beneath the piece of paper, with the iron filings scattered upon it - the magnetic field interacting with the iron particles causes them all to arrange themselves along the lei lines of the magnetic field, thus rendering the invisible, visible. This is a perfect analogy for Qi in most living beings, particularly human. Imagine that bar in the center is a human being standing upright, and you can see the "Qi" lines surrounding and penetrating him.

The pole ends being at the crown of the head and at the base of his feet, we need to understand this as though like a doughnut, or a torus shape - relatively. This shape obviously isn't round like a donut, unless you could imagine an elongated one (and in truth, a bit egg-shaped) - but the point is that there is a central area of flow... if this human be male, the direction of flow is down in through the crown of the head, through and along the central core, out through the base at the feet, and spreads outward and upward along the outside of this "tubular doughnut", and all turns back in on itself at the crown and continues cycling again... for females, this direction of flow is in the opposite direction; out from the crown, down the outer edge of the shell, coming in together at the base, up through the central core, and out forth from the crown once again, and so on.

Or at least, this is the flow of the bio-electromotive force, which runs along the lei lines of one's Qi.

If you notice, the lei lines themselves have no motion whatsoever - and this is a key thing to understand here - the iron filings, once aligned to the lei lines of the field, do not move... there is no motive force. Therefore, the Qi is merely a template of the paths along which the force would flow.

The term for the bio-electromotive force is Jing.

Now, to be certain, technically, there can be motion of Qi, but only in changing the shape of the field - which is done in two major ways; rising/falling, and expanding/contracting.

So it can be said that while the practitioner of, say, Yang style T'ai Qi Quan (different schools of the same art tend to have different spellings), sends that opponent flying in the previous sparring illustration mentioned above, he does so by sending a surge of Jing through his field, cycling it along the lei lines, and then expands his field forward, sort of bulging it out, protruding a bit in the opponent's direction - in effect, pushing against his opponent's own bio-electromagnetic field, with his own, and sending his opponent off, quite not unlike two like-poled magnets repelling each other.

Now, Jeriko knows what he's talking about here... he says;

Jeriko wrote: Connection to his chi centre, (the dan tien, which is located 2 inches below the naval) was indeed strengthened through years of chi Kung, form repetition and pushing hands.


In Yang style T'ai Qi Quan, *internal* form, this is a very important point of focus - the dan tien. Where he locates this is correct, topically... though in internal form, it's the same place, though deeper - imagine your pelvic bone as though a bowl - now place a candle pin bowling ball sized sphere in it, and it will settle in the middle of the base - this is where the dan tien is said to be internally, within the torso, in this context.

I mention that ball image for a reason... in the cultivation of Jing, it is often concentrated in a ball of such size, resting in the dan tien... then moved up and down the central core of the field within the torso, while it spins, rolling in a forward direction, dispersing collected Jing throughout the body in a manner according to the technique.

Through the use of "compression breathing", the Jing is drawn into the marrow of the bones where it accumulates and develops strength and substance.

As it is cultivated, it resonates with the Qi field, and you begin to feel something akin to electricity and warmth in your bones.

So far, I've skipped wildly ahead, not mentioning techniques which would bring one to this point, and there's more further on, but that is beyond the scope of this post. I will mention an excellent manual for this, near the end of this post.

If I'm remembering right, someone in this thread had said that there is no positive or negative to this force (unsure of exact wording)... but there is, kind of. There is Yang and Yin - but that isn't exactly as analogous to a "positive" and "negative" per se... more like a "high hum" and a "low buzz"... one being more "hot singy", the other more "cold clicky"... well, these terms are subjective, and other persons may use different expressions - you'd have to personally experience it to be certain of what's meant here. But feeling the difference between these "poles", is something which at first may seem difficult to grasp, but once understood, is quite a substantial difference, and easily recognizable.

So yes, there is a polarity. There needs to be, after all - just as a battery cell needs polarity to function.

I need to point out another bit of wisdom Jeriko mentioned;

Jeriko wrote: I would say though that i do not believe it's utilisation can be achieved through reading.


(Though the book he mentions is a good one.)

Reading a book... is good for taking in data.
Depending on the book, topic and author, not much else.

Now, there is a difference between a book, and a manual - but even more different when it is written in Chinese for example, using idiographic text - each character can have more than one meaning/nuance to consider, and more data is then transferred and understood deeply, even, to a certain subtle degree, as though experiencing it - as reading/understanding idiographic text is a function of the right side of the brain (can be read and understood in dreams, another function of that hemisphere... while deciphering alphabetic text, a function of the left side, is nearly always gibberish in dreams).

A book is for obtaining data... a manual, for acquiring/cultivating talents.

Try to see this book as a manual;
"T'ai Chi Classics (Shambhala Classics)" by Waysun Liao
ISBN-10: 1570627495
ISBN-13: 978-1570627491

This will show how to sense and manipulate the bio-electromagnetic field, Qi, then to cultivate the bio-electromotive force, Jing, and a large number of techniques for using this force to push and to pull, even at a distance... pay special attention to the technique, "Fa Jing" - as it is the one used in the sparring example mention in the beginning of this post.

I hope this helps.

May The Force Be With You Always

- Tarran ^_^
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Last edit: 30 Aug 2015 14:29 by Tarran.
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31 Aug 2015 22:30 - 31 Aug 2015 22:38 #201533 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Chi?

zippy12 wrote: Is reiki, the same basic concept?


Reiki (supposedly) means "universal ki." It's a strange concept unrelated to personal chi, as it claims not to involve any individual's chi, but rather some benevolent universal energy instead. Which is bollocks, from my educated opinion.

As far as the OP goes, chi is present in nearly every single magickal, mystical, or spiritual practice in some degree. From numina to ruach to chi to ki to prana to animus to the extremely specific concepts of mana and tapu, you can find analogous concepts all over.

As to how to use it? Develop it first. Then ask someone who does it. I'm sure there are plenty in this thread.
Last edit: 31 Aug 2015 22:38 by steamboat28.

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04 Sep 2015 18:45 #201912 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic Chi?

Tarran wrote: Through the use of "compression breathing", the Jing is drawn into the marrow of the bones where it accumulates and develops strength and substance.


I flubbed... I meant to say "condensing breathing" :P lol My bad ;)

- Tarran ^_^

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05 Sep 2015 00:20 #201947 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Chi?

zippy12 wrote: Is reiki, the same basic concept?


my reiki teacher taught me that the word reiki is best translated as "divine energy"

it is said, by those who practice it, to be a form of energy which is similar to, but distinct from, personal chi

i believe this is essentially true, reiki IS distinct from chi, although i aslo believe that ones personal chi is involved in the reiki experience, simply because it is not possible to direct ones attention without also directing ones personal energy

People are complicated.

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05 Sep 2015 01:01 #201954 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Chi?
i have a ton of mantak chia books on developing and using chi....most of what's in them was instinctive for me, but still fascinating to read....

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


Out of darkness, he brings light. Out of hatred, love. Out of dishonor, honor-james allen-
He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure-james allen-
The sword is the key to heaven and hell-Mahomet-
The best won victory is that obtained without shedding blood-Count Katsu-
All men's souls are immortal, only the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine -Socrates-
I'm the best at what I do, what I do ain't pretty-wolverine

J.L.Lawson,Sr Knight, B.div, Eastern Studies S.I.G. Advisor (Formerly Known as the Buddhist Rite)
Former Masters: GM Kana Seiko Haruki , Br.John
Current Apprentices: Baru
Former Apprentices:Adhara(knight), Zenchi (knight)

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09 Jan 2021 06:55 - 09 Jan 2021 06:55 #357565 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic Chi?
I'd also flubbed when I'd mentioned...

Tarran wrote: I mention that ball image for a reason... in the cultivation of Jing, it is often concentrated in a ball of such size, resting in the dan tien... then moved up and down the central core of the field within the torso, while it spins, rolling in a forward direction, dispersing collected Jing throughout the body in a manner according to the technique.


...such is true for males - females should have the ball rolling in a backspin direction.

I just wanted to point that out - I wouldn't want anyone doing any Qi energy work misinformed and end up with a spleen the size of an ox! :laugh: lol
Last edit: 09 Jan 2021 06:55 by Tarran.
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09 Jan 2021 12:56 - 09 Jan 2021 12:56 #357574 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic Chi?
Pastor Carlos here

Is chi gender specific?

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Last edit: 09 Jan 2021 12:56 by Carlos.Martinez3.

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10 Jan 2021 03:10 #357592 by Tarran
Replied by Tarran on topic Chi?

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: Pastor Carlos here

Is chi gender specific?


If you mean, "Is Qi in any way involved in gender politics", no... such things (the politics) are a human construct.

But as far as the creationary energy aspects of physical bodies, yes, there is a Yin and a Yang involved. The procreational equipment is different for each, and so are the creational/generative energies. It's how the Universe works, and has nothing whatsoever to do with anything regarding gender politics (again, a human construct). I hope that answers your question :)
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10 Jan 2021 11:26 #357601 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic Chi?

Tarran wrote: But as far as the creationary energy aspects of physical bodies, yes, there is a Yin and a Yang involved. The procreational equipment is different for each, and so are the creational/generative energies. It's how the Universe works, ...

Please, elaborate:

What are creational/generative energies, and what about them is different for each between the "Yin" and the "Yang" varieties?

If (and only if) by the capital-U Universe you mean the universe we happen to share between us, what about said universe is it that works in this way, and what is this way that it works, anyway?

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