Astronomers about to discover a first alien civilization?

More
15 Oct 2015 21:03 #205614 by OB1Shinobi
jesus who are we gonna get to build THIS fence???

(usa immigration joke; may not make sense to the rest of the world - which is typical for usa too lol)

People are complicated.
The following user(s) said Thank You: RyuJin

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
17 Oct 2015 16:20 #205771 by Alethea Thompson
www.cnn.com/2015/10/15/world/extraterres...ntelligence-anomaly/

CNN picked up the story yesterday. They also report that it is possible the phenomena is a cloud. But it's pretty cool to notice something the sky like that :)

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Streen
  • Streen's Avatar
  • Guest
18 Oct 2015 11:02 #205824 by Streen
Yeah, I tend not to get excited about this sort of thing anymore. There's been a lot "discoveries" over the past 20 years or so that would suggest alien life, but turn out to be natural phenomena.

It would be amazing, of course, if they found life, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Pèlerin
  • Pèlerin's Avatar Topic Author
  • Guest
18 Oct 2015 13:29 #205834 by Pèlerin
Keep an open mind because one day we will eventually discover many of our fellow humanoids elsewhere in the universe, or even in our own galaxy.

It is repugnant to reason that mankind, like living species, intelligent and with a consciousness of self is present only on Earth only ...

And I would say it is mathematically impossible to be so.

MTFBWY

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Oct 2015 16:44 #205844 by Gisteron

Pèlerin wrote: In all things and at all times, I keep an open mind to the possibilities ... until proven otherwise. ;)

Well, I like my brains to remain inside my head, so my mind shall open only until the point they start spilling out and no further. I could just as easily say that there is no life in the vicinity of KIC-8462852 and "until proven otherwise" you would be obliged to believe that there both is and isn't simultaneously.
It is for this reason, that the time to believe things comes when evidence in their favour is presented, not for all time before evidence against them is. As Adi already pointed out, the Atlantic is not a scientific journal by any means and it does consciously and actively misrepresent the paper it conveniently links to. This is what to me makes it untrustworthy: It is decent enough to cite sources, but bold enough to misrepresent them, too, so I know not what to expect of them.
Oh, and before I forget it, just as we ought not label things true before we have a way of demonstrating that they are, we do not get to call things possible before we can demonstrate the possibility either. Do we yet have evidence that positively indicates alien life or indeed even the possibility thereof? No? Well, then keep looking.

FYI:
If you cast a random rational number between zero and one, the probability that you will get 0.35, as an example, is exactly naught. If you cast a random rational number in that interval infinite times, the probability that you will get 0.35 once is 1. That you get it 300 times is also 1. And if you expand your interval to also include real numbers, the probability to hit 0.35 by casting a random number indefinately over and over again drops down to 0 again.
You can still get 0.35 on your first try. Or on your second. Or on your first and your second and another billion tries following those two. A great number of things that are really completely impossible, are still well within the hyperspace of possibilities. And that is the problem with mathematics and probability: Reality doesn't actually bow to it. What is really possible is not a matter of logic in this way.

;)

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Pèlerin
  • Pèlerin's Avatar Topic Author
  • Guest
18 Oct 2015 19:48 #205849 by Pèlerin

Gisteron wrote: you would be obliged to believe


With all due respect Gisteron:

Since when the science should be in link to the faith?

The science never asks to "believe" in something, science compels the reason to stand to the truth of the facts, right?

So as long as we have the proof by the affirmative or the negative of the existence of intelligent life alien conscious of itself (which corresponds to the generally accepted definition human being) the reason must remain open to the possibilities of one side or the other.

That is the essence of things of those matters.

MTFBWY

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Streen
  • Streen's Avatar
  • Guest
18 Oct 2015 19:59 #205850 by Streen

Pèlerin wrote: Keep an open mind because one day we will eventually discover many of our fellow humanoids elsewhere in the universe, or even in our own galaxy.


My mind is open. I believe strongly in the existence of life elsewhere in this galaxy, and I believe we will soon discover it.

But according to the article, it is probable that it could be a natural phenomenon.

I am hopeful to find life, just not in this particular case.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Oct 2015 20:30 #205851 by Gisteron
If you can show that both things are actually "possibilities", and only after you have shown this, yes, we would have to acknowledge the possibilities. No sooner though.
But of course the thing you quoted was not a matter of science at all. I was just showing the flaw of your reasoning. If you consistently accept things until they are disproven, you end up accepting mutually exclusive or even directly contradictory things. This, as I said, is the reason why we don't go that route, but instead disbelieve things until positive evidence is presented.
If you want to talk metaphysics and the fundamentals of science, I'll gladly join you: Science neither asks to believe, nor compels reason to anything. Science is the label we put on a particular set of epistemic approaches. It is a method, if you will, a tool. Much like a hammer, it doesn't inform or demand anything. We can choose to use it or not to use it. That's all.
Getting into more detail, science knows no proofs. Proofs in either the affirmative or negative are structures of disciplines that seek truth, such as logic, mathematics in particular and arguably some branches of philosphy in general. Science is not like this.

I am well open to the idea that there might be life out there in the universe. It happened on our planet somehow, so we know it is possible, and chances are it either happened before or will someday happen again. Perhaps somewhere it is happening right now. Or maybe some three billion light years from here there is an alien astronomer looking at our planet, seeing how life is forming on Earth. Or maybe not. Indeed, chances are he would be completely unlike us. Maybe they don't even have telescopes.
But all that is irrelevant. The claim is more specific than that. We are talking about a very particular star: KIC-8462852. Now, if I am to remain perfectly open-minded, I must reserve judgement on either what really is out there or what is possible until such time that either any possibility or any particular explanation is indicated. You, on the other hand, are saying that this or that is possible, and instead of appealing to some actual evidence of the possibilities you so readily say there are, you appeal to an ever so vague "open-mindedness" in the hopes that those of us who are actually open and willing to wait for the evidence would quit responding.
No, sir, reason does not need to remain open. Reason must remain reasonable. It must not pass judgement on what is or isn't possible until such time when any such judgement is warranted.

Dif-tor heh smusma!

Better to leave questions unanswered than answers unquestioned

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Pèlerin
  • Pèlerin's Avatar Topic Author
  • Guest
18 Oct 2015 21:11 #205857 by Pèlerin
But when a serious and credible media report the information, perhaps we have a little more credibility than estimated at the beginning...

See for yourself:

" Space anomaly gets extraterrestrial intelligence experts' attention "

And yes, I keep an open mind to the possibilities, whatever skepticism expressed from your side... :ohmy:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Oct 2015 21:40 - 18 Oct 2015 21:45 #205861 by Carlos.Martinez3
I love science. We as people only explain what nature does. I love it!

We explain what the Force does.


I vote we send a Jedi with the Dali Lama to say hi... lol maybe Jestor! Haaa that would be a great "human" relations moment! Jk Jestor! But at least I know we wouldn't be headed for interstellar war.

Contact The Clergy
Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
The Block
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
Last edit: 18 Oct 2015 21:45 by Carlos.Martinez3.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Pèlerin

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: RexZero