The Postmodern Jedi

03 Dec 2020 14:16 - 03 Dec 2020 14:17 #356664 by Loudzoo
The Postmodern Jedi was created by Loudzoo
The following may not make sense to anyone else but it makes good sense to me.

Some questions to hold in mind:

What is the role of a Jedi in a culture war?
What is truth? Is it always a compromise?
As Jedi - how can we prevent our intention to be respectable, compassionate and likeable being employed by potentially destructive forces?
Can we be neutral AND effective in the world? Or, do we have to take a side?

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Apprentice: Squint

Before the truth will set you free, it'll piss you off (MANTRA ~ Bring Me the Horizon)
Last edit: 03 Dec 2020 14:17 by Loudzoo.
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04 Dec 2020 05:52 #356688 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic The Postmodern Jedi
Encourage one another to LEARN.

Learn as much about each culture as possible, with the least bias as possible.
Learn how one's own personal psychology works as well as of people around us in general.

The reason I say this is that it is evident in human history that, earlier in our history, there was more violence, and decisions were a lot more cut and dry and based off of ignorance (I'm mostly referring to things revolving around religion in particular as an example), and later in our history, we as humans learned more about how we work as humans through various fields of science, and along the way, our approaches to things that we would, in the past, execute people and go to war for, we realized what was necessary and what was not. We learned more effective approaches and ways of communicating to resolve conflicts through the new understanding we acquired.

In this day and age, this seems as important as ever to continue paying attention to learning about ourselves in precisely this way.

Culture wars come about when there is new information about an aspect of our society that we are infants at understanding what to do with it, so our default reaction is that which is based off of our primitive instincts of old. The only way to remedy this is to encourage the idea that there is still more to learn about said cultures and to encourage those who are part of that culture to continue learning about it, but also about the cultures that they clash with. The more we understand what is going on, the less fear and hatred will linger.

A Jedi's role, in my eyes, is to foster the encouragement of all of the above through effective communication, and as an example of it, encourage and help others better communicate it as well.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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04 Dec 2020 05:53 - 04 Dec 2020 05:58 #356689 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic The Postmodern Jedi
Yikes, it's over an hour!?
I'll have to find time to listen..... but I don't think topics are good or bad, allowed or disallowed, yet distortion of them is what misleads from accuracy. To me truth is accuracy.

Distortion of context or distortion of the information itself. It can be accidental, or it can be deliberate. Usually if deliberate it's done so it is not easily identifiable as such, else the desired effect of distortion wouldn't occur.

Obviously factors play into circumstances in regards to appropriate topics, where particular information is being 'defined' and 'shaped' within a culture, ie what is appropriate for a particular audience, be it kids, in the workplace, legislated requirements etc but there is only so much an individual can do directly, and instead must rely on other mechanisms within society (usually slower but surer).

So a big angle I like to take on Jedi, is as if it's about being able to translate around different points of view better than others who might be a bit stuck in their view or approach to a problem - be it any aspect of culture... language, subjective biases, thought cages of narrative constructs (like eg the old mentioned by Proteus abv), systems of coercion and intimidation, cycles of fear of hatred, and various other types of self interest trying to coerce more control through abuse of communication and society. Which can be very subtle but still quite effective. I think we understand the downstream impacts of that sort of thing. So a culture 'war', in the scale of conflict is a pretty well advanced conflict, short of some brainwave of mediation it seems beyond the scope of an individual. A big impediment for us is being thrown in the basket as the 'enemy' and ourselves misrepresented! So, there is only so much that can be done diplomatically against an advancing army. I'm not sure if this opinion of mine would be classified as neutral though, in theory it should at least align us with the 'good guys' :D I look forward to listening to it.

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu
Last edit: 04 Dec 2020 05:58 by Adder. Reason: spelling, and reference to prior post
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04 Dec 2020 13:49 #356695 by rugadd
Replied by rugadd on topic The Postmodern Jedi
Be open and kind. It will help.

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07 Dec 2020 05:29 #356768 by temet_nosce
Replied by temet_nosce on topic The Postmodern Jedi
I would just like to say that in the age of mass communication and information the very currency that all the powers that be utilize is data. This data represents control via bias and dissemination.

I say this to mean that whoever controls the data and the distribution of that data controls the consumers of that data. This is to say that the powers that be can apply their bias to said data to reflect a specific ideology/argument.

This is nothing new but in the context of this conversation it is everything. The precise point is that we have a responsibility to glean as much raw data from any and every source to get to the bottom of every message.

According to our doctrine we as Jedi are obligated to see through things like media bias and intentional interpretation. These things are not inherently wrong in and of themselves but they are usually used in such a way that they are reinforcements to some side of an issue or platform.

To bring this all together the very information we need to interact with each other is often weaponized by controlling entities to further ends and elicit responses. I understand I am being a bit vague here. This is to keep from straying off topic.

Simply put, knowledge is power. In the Information Age knowledge redefines the golden rule. Beyond Jediism we as humans need to be aware of this and practice discernment.

Every person must employ critical thinking and sound logical reasoning to ensure that we are not being led astray. This isn’t to say that we can’t ease back a little when we find an information source that we deem credible. What needs to be kept in mind is when said source starts to veer away from its standard line. Then we must apply discernment and judgement to ascertain whether or not that new information is valid and truthful.

Another aspect we need to be aware of that the video hits on quite a bit is personal bias. Our perception and interpretation of the world around us can become distorted by this bias and lead us to seek only information that agrees with what we have come to expect. It’s called confirmation bias. It can cloud judgement and make us set in our way of thinking, thus closing our minds.

There is a lot to think about that this video and the topic at large bring up. Using critical thinking and a willingness to hear from different sides we as Jedi should be able to fulfill our duty and be better able to mediate conflicts and generally be better informed due to a heightened awareness of these tactics.
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08 Dec 2020 02:44 - 08 Dec 2020 02:48 #356785 by Dokkōdō
Replied by Dokkōdō on topic The Postmodern Jedi
I take issue with viewing truth as relative, this seems to devalue objectivity.

The issue is though, it seems like all "truths" nowadays are relative (really it's mostly strong beliefs, but people feel so strongly about it, they fool themselves into thinking that their beliefs are factual, i.e. political views), as everybody has different sources of information, and differing beliefs on what sources are credible.

And this is a giant issue that people like to ignore. Beliefs do not equate to truth. Truth is that which is in accord with reality, or factual.

On top of it all, we have sources of information with biased agendas (major media outlets, social media, etc.), which distorts the information they supply, so if you want the facts, you gotta sift through all the BS.

Those who seek power and wealth take advantage of this, which only does even more harm.

And then, we all have our own various personal biases, which don't help, as we get emotional when our bubble is burst and this tends to only make people even more stubborn and less likely to listen. People don't like being wrong. I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, though I try my best to remain objective. Which is also a bias in itself. Damn.

AND THEN, you factor in that reality is experienced through our senses, so ultimately all of our experiential knowledge rests on the reliability of our sensory perception, which we have no way of proving other than through our sensory perception. But that's an entirely different conversation lol.

We are in a pickle, there is no doubt about that.

(man, now I want a pickle. not a gherkin, a straight-up crunchy dill pickle)
Last edit: 08 Dec 2020 02:48 by Dokkōdō.

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08 Dec 2020 07:16 #356790 by Rex
Replied by Rex on topic The Postmodern Jedi
That video brought up a couple interesting questions, but even the language used was so loaded (and almost inflammatory click bait material) I honestly didn't bother to finish it. Concepts like "culture war" or how the host and guest used "postmodernism" have so many presumptions that I don't agree with. Even minor semantic distinctions like "truth" versus capital T overarching narrative sorts of "Truth" completely can change the course of a discussion.

To ensure the segment I saw was representative, I watched a minute of whichever video of his was recommended afterwards, and it was about even in terms of hurling catchphrases.

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ὁ δὲ ἀμυχηδόν νεξέταστος βίος γίγνομαι βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ
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10 Dec 2020 16:02 #356819 by Carlos.Martinez3
I finally got to see hear this. I am impressed at the level of words some use to use to describe a few things. I didn't know some of the terms but I did look em up. I liked listening to people talk about things they know.
I learned much
One of the things I told my wife is that there are sooo many ways to say the same thing. Its neat to see other people talking about the same things. Makes me think... we are as one at times as far as the human condition is concerned and the Hero's Journey for each of us. this is a bit of a attempt of humor but like the kids say " same same but different."

In my Pastor search I am currently seeking out the First Skywalker in Myth. Where I am now is in the First Nation Of the Americas story's right now. The Skywalker or the one who travels from tribe to tribe helping and having extraordinary powers but usually likes to get people involved... is a real myth from a real tribe. There may be more to this than just Cinema...

There was once a person who had bad things happen. In their pain and hurt they became the go between for new character and the old. It became something beneficial and new to those who tried.

Doesn't that sound like what we do here?????

Ima have to call "same same" card on this one lol buuuut different - but the SAME

Thank you for sharing this and what it will bring and has brought to me personally

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Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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16 Dec 2020 13:53 #356957 by Streen
Replied by Streen on topic The Postmodern Jedi

Loudzoo wrote: What is truth? Is it always a compromise?

The truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it.

There is a fine line between insight and insanity. —me
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31 Dec 2020 11:18 #357314 by Vandrar
Replied by Vandrar on topic The Postmodern Jedi
A clash of cultures is always filled with fear. And that's exactly what has happened to the whole world since globalization.
In the past it was usually two cultures that had to deal with each other and this usually ended with war and the suppression of one culture.
During the world wars there were already several cultures and they were seen as the greatest wars of annihilation of all time.

And today?
Since the beginning of the Internet, the whole world has suddenly collided. We suddenly find that in spite of all equality
we are very different and it fills the world with fear.
Do I have to give up my culture?
Isn't my way of life much better than that of the others?
My people exist much longer than others!
What should we do when THEY all come here?
And so on ...
The possibilities and chances that have arisen for the world are not seen by the crowd. There are only a few idealists.

As I see it, fear grows in the world and the peoples are beginning to isolate themselves - look at England and the EU, for example.
There are only a few who see a solution in the cooperation of the whole world and see the many different cultures, beliefs, beliefs and
ways of life as enrichment.

And how did Yoda say?
Fear grows anger, anger grows hate, and hate grows into endless suffering.

What is truth. Truth is always relative. It is always in the eye of the beholder. The art is to be able to take the respective perspective
and to draw the right conclusions from it.

What is the role of a Jedi today?
Inspire to learn.
Teaching that the differences are an enrichment, that all cultures are equal and that nobody has to reveal their identity.

live - love - be - believe
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