Does "love" work?

  • Streen
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23 May 2015 16:30 #192970 by Streen
Replied by Streen on topic Does "love" work?

what role does love play in your view of child molesters?


I believe in forgiveness.

have you ever had the "broken heart" experience?


Damn straight. What does that matter?

betrayal by those you loved?


Again yes, but what does it matter?

what of those rare but real few who actually enjoy causing pain and inflicting helplessness on others?


Again, forgiveness. Even when that pain was inflicted on me. I experienced hate, the desire for revenge, etc. But I know these things are not in line with the Force. Like I said, the Force is Love, and Love is Unity. Unity solves everything. There are only two commandments that Christ asked of us:

• Love God with all your being.
• Love others as you love yourself.

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23 May 2015 16:33 #192973 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Does "love" work?
i think those are great answers

People are complicated.

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  • Khaos
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23 May 2015 18:53 #192979 by Khaos
Replied by Khaos on topic Does "love" work?

Streen wrote:

what role does love play in your view of child molesters?


I believe in forgiveness.

have you ever had the "broken heart" experience?


Damn straight. What does that matter?

betrayal by those you loved?


Again yes, but what does it matter?

what of those rare but real few who actually enjoy causing pain and inflicting helplessness on others?


Again, forgiveness. Even when that pain was inflicted on me. I experienced hate, the desire for revenge, etc. But I know these things are not in line with the Force. Like I said, the Force is Love, and Love is Unity. Unity solves everything. There are only two commandments that Christ asked of us:

• Love God with all your being.
• Love others as you love yourself.


Its amusing how selfish you were in this.

Sure, you forgive, or it doesnt matter....except thats not precisely the point.

"The Force is love"

Except hey, there are child molesters, betrayers, etc.

Sure you have found coping mechanisms...

However, the Force is not love.

Simply because there are people who indeed molest children, betray, etc.

Are they, and there actions, and repercussions any less than yours because you have placed yours on a moral and ethical pedestal?

The fact that such individuals exist within the Force, whatever that means, is evidence that the Force is not love, regardless of how you choose to act in regards to those who do not love, but are of and within the Force as well.

They are still there, acting, sending out ripples from those actions, which are in any sense of the word, not loving.

Its not all about You.

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  • Khaos
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23 May 2015 18:56 #192980 by Khaos
Replied by Khaos on topic Does "love" work?

OB1Shinobi wrote: love with attachment hurts


And?

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24 May 2015 13:08 - 24 May 2015 13:26 #193027 by OB1Shinobi
Replied by OB1Shinobi on topic Does "love" work?
and nothing really

i was in a bad mood and i was saying what i felt like saying

i dont feel like saying it today

i think its clear that love and forgiveness and tolerance and flower petals and puppies and long walks on the beach at sunset are all more pleasant and happy ways to live than resentment and revenge and violence

the issues of how a loving person is supposed to cope with the crappiness that exists in the world and still be loving is onethat we all have to work through for ourselves

its easy to say it but its hard to do it

People are complicated.
Last edit: 24 May 2015 13:26 by OB1Shinobi.

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  • Adi Vas
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24 May 2015 13:30 #193028 by Adi Vas
Replied by Adi Vas on topic Does "love" work?
In Jorge Luis Borges' short story The Immortal, a Roman soldier quests for and attains immortality. At first glance, it might seem as though he has received a most precious gift, but he soon finds that because immortality grants one the ability to (eventually) live all possible lives, it eliminates the preciousness of life. Borges argues that our finite nature, that we only have so many years with which to live, is what gives our life such meaning.

I tend to think of love, compassion and kindness in a similar way. We live in a world where instinct often urges us to be brutal, cold and unfeeling in the name of survival. Though I see great beauty in it, our world is often capable of being a very ugly one. And in that context, when the whole world is saying "look out for yourself, do what you must just to survive, at any cost," to love and have great compassion is a remarkable thing - something that I find takes great strength.

Certainly I would like to live in a world where everyone loved one another and did good by one another, but in such a world, our love would be mundane and normal, and not the extraordinary force it can be. So how do *I* cope with the "crappiness that exists in the world"? By loving my fellow living beings and doing my very best to do right by everyone I meet, and recognizing how powerful it is when I encounter that love myself. Because in our world, it really is a precious thing.

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  • Streen
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30 Jun 2015 11:44 #196377 by Streen
Replied by Streen on topic Does "love" work?

Its amusing how selfish you were in this.


Selfish? The questions were personal:

what role does love play in your view of child molesters?
have you ever had the "broken heart" experience?
betrayal by those you loved?


Even if the questions were not meant to be personal, who am I to say what others should believe about child molesters, broken hearts, and betrayal? I only know how they affect me, not how they affect others.

But that's all beside the point.

I see the Force as Love for these reasons...

The universe includes all.
No matter how evil a person is, he/she is still part of the universe.
The universe is made of energy. That energy is the Force.
The Force is all-inclusive.
What is more inclusive than Love?
Love is nothing more than the acknowledgement that all is One.

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  • 6h057
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15 Jul 2015 05:08 #197921 by 6h057
Replied by 6h057 on topic Does "love" work?
I see the Force as balanced. Love without attachment is pure and allows the person loving to remain in a position of loving compassion without any limitations or expectations of what happens as a result of that love. Love with attachment comes with conditions. It leaves one open to experiencing fear, anger and hate. These as we all know are the dark half of the Force. This path feeds the ego and keeps the attached person in spiritual bondage.

All love results in pain. Whether or not you are willing to face that pain openly or fear loss are the key to staying connected to the unifying parts of the Force.

As for child molesters, see above for my explanation of the Dark Side of the Force. They become attached, feed their egos, and eventually experience suffering. They are doing something that alleviates that suffering for however long. Like an addict. We are all addicted to our egos and listening to their negativity. Pulling every situation apart and telling us why it won't work, or you aren't good enough, and worst yet, you aren't worthy of love. These are thoughts. Not reality. You are not those thoughts, you are the light in the universe shining on those thoughts. Those thoughts we dwell on will attract like thoughts, eventually you are creating a story of thoughts, that story becomes a visualization, and eventually that visualization begins to manifest itself in reality. Choosing to be mindful of our thoughts, is choosing to shine the light of our consciousness on positivity and co creating a word that is better for us having been in it.

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15 Jul 2015 06:45 #197922 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic Does "love" work?
I tend to see Love as one of the most human experiences of the Force, mind you that being an idealized concept of human - not the medium, mean or any preceding modes of self. So yea that is an absolute experience of love being a most accessible experience of the Force to the human... hopefully somethings things make more sense written backwards and forewards
:unsure:

Knight ~ introverted extropian, mechatronic neurothealogizing, technogaian buddhist. Likes integration, visualization, elucidation and transformation.
Jou ~ Deg ~ Vlo ~ Sem ~ Mod ~ Med ~ Dis
TM: Grand Master Mark Anjuu

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  • Accipter [Ace] Salix
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22 Jul 2015 04:20 #198518 by Accipter [Ace] Salix
Replied by Accipter [Ace] Salix on topic Does "love" work?
I've read through the posts to this point and I find this an interesting conversation.

Khaos, I like your point, "The fact that such individuals exist within the Force, whatever that means, is evidence that the Force is not love," below.
I feel that my contribution here will be in line with the essence of that sentiment.

Baru, Thank you for starting this topic. I’d like to try to answer some of the questions in your topic-starting post.

This is what I think:

“Is love the force that binds us together?”
A: It’s one of them.
“Can love really save the world?”
A: Probably not, the only constant in life being change, after all; but it wouldn’t hurt to try, would it? I think not. Worse ideas have been brought to fruition.
“If everyone just focussed on the purest or highest, most universal form of “love,” what kind of world would we be living in?”
A: I don’t think any human has ever reached the ‘purest or highest, most universal form of love.’ We might someday, but I can’t imagine it in the present or past. Try to imagine the person who reaches that state. Life as an orgasm without end, except that it’s an orgasm beside which all other acts of love are like butterfly-kisses. No human could withstand that! and still function in society afterwards, no way!
“Can I really get to a state of “unconditional,” complete, universal love?”
Complete love: You can totally achieve that! Unconditional love: Well, you can try, but don’t beat yourself up about it if you fall a little short. Saints have tried too. Universal love: Now, there you have a problem. Give it a few hundred million years. Universal things take time.

This is what I think:

'Love and hate are the exact same thing,' is a correct statement, written along the same lines by which you might also state, correctly, that, 'hot and cold are the exact same thing.' They are two different frequencies of the same thing. You can't point to a thermometer and say, "This is where hot begins and cold ends." You also can't point to life (to people, nature, society, yourself, etc.) and say, "This is where love begins and hate ends." There are temperatures you find hot, others that you find cold, and many, many-many in-between that, somewhere in the middle, are neither hot nor cold. There are aspects of life you find loving, others that you find hateful, and many, many-many in-between that, somewhere in the middle, are neither loving nor hateful. There are temperatures you find colder, and some you find hotter, but your perception of this contrast comes from the difference between that frequency, and your own, natural temperature (if you're naturally warm, the cold-thing will feel cooler). There are aspects of life you find more loving, and some you find more hateful, but your perception of this contrast comes from the difference between how that aspect of life feels to you, and your own, natural aspect (if you're naturally disposed to love, the hateful-thing will feel more hateful).
The confusion comes in our language. I'm not sure we have a word that expresses both love and hate the way that 'temperature' expresses both hot and cold. If there were, then I could say, in summary, that, "Temperature and 'that-word' are analogous; love and hate are equal; the Force is both of that and more."

Thank you,
Ace

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