Why so clueless about internet safety?

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16 Jan 2016 12:29 - 16 Jan 2016 12:34 #222046 by Yugen

Aqua wrote:

Bareus wrote: This is actually something i have been thinking about, and i belive the way people think is that this works like a social media.
On facebook for example you can post age, adress and phone number. There are basically no restrictions that protect minors on facebook, and so when they come here they just put the adress, age and phone number on their profile as they would have done on other places/communities.

What we could do is to make the youth FAQ more easy to spot in the first place, and maybe put internet safety as a part of the IP, like a sub-section of the IP0.
And i belive that people dosen't really understand what could happen, until it is too late.
A common thought could be "It's the internet, what harm could anyone possibly make to me here"
A pinned post in the introduction forum also perhaps?


It already is in the IP:

IP: Introduction

If You Are Under 18

If you are under the age of 18 years, we ask you to first introduce yourself, by sending a private/personal message (PM), to a Youth Officer and follow their instructions. For more information about this please read this section of the Youth FaQ.

Our Youth Officers were carefully selected and need to be made aware of you for legal reasons.


What would you like to change to make it more effective? It is in the introduction before lesson 0. Would moving it deeper into the IP help? *worried* :blush:


It is not about internet safety, just what minors are supposed to do.
What i mean is that we should have a section with internet safety
And as Edan says, it's not just with minors, so just having instructions to the minors won't effect the people over 18

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Last edit: 16 Jan 2016 12:34 by Yugen.

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16 Jan 2016 13:28 #222054 by Manu
As someone in my 30s, and living in Ecuador, away from most of you (as this site, being in English, caters more to people in the UK, US and Australia, or so I would think), I have no problem sharing information that would otherwise be available to the public in a place such as Facebook.

I see no reason to disclose my home address, of course, but my mobile phone and city is out there for those who wish to contact me.

Personally, I've found that when you are a member in an online forum such as this, including your real picture and name can help make the whole process of sharing more transparent. I do agree minors need to be especially careful though.

Problems that remain persistently insoluble should always be suspected as questions asked in the wrong way - Alan Watts

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16 Jan 2016 13:56 #222056 by Exarchias
Replied by Exarchias on topic Why so clueless about internet safety?

Edan wrote: It has become clear to me recently that many people who join have little or no concept of internet safety, under 18s especially. I see birth dates, phone numbers, addresses on profiles, forums posts and even usernames.

This information can be used against you and some will not hesitate to do so.

We have done our best recently to educate our new members, and in the youth faq are links to internet safety sites (links which I am certain are never clicked!).

Do you think it is a case of people not really realising what can happen until it happens? How can we better educate our members?


I wish to leave one idea if i may. Isn't possible to find or make a video about internet safety?
Videos are usually far more effective than text.
Especially for under 18, it could be a big notification, "if you are under 18 read that" that could lead to an article with the usual text and a proper video.

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16 Jan 2016 14:07 #222058 by Anubis
Replied by Anubis on topic Why so clueless about internet safety?
The oath is probably the biggest area where you can find most everyone's name and date of birth.

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16 Jan 2016 14:14 #222060 by Edan

Anubis wrote: The oath is probably the biggest area where you can find most everyone's name and date of birth.


You know I did think this after I had posted the thread.. hmm... Jestor will tell you, I argued with him over this when I first joined!

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16 Jan 2016 15:05 #222069 by Anubis
Replied by Anubis on topic Why so clueless about internet safety?
Is there a way to modify this or make it private?

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16 Jan 2016 15:06 #222071 by Dechlain
Replied by Dechlain on topic Why so clueless about internet safety?
Is it possible to block those fields so that the option to disclose is not there?

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16 Jan 2016 18:28 #222126 by hiddeninthesnow
Replied by hiddeninthesnow on topic Why so clueless about internet safety?
I think people (especially young people) think "well, they wouldn't be asking for my information if I didn't have to give it to them to register, and I'm certain they're protecting strangers from seeing it". Or they think, like with Facebook, that there's so much of the info from so many people, nobody really cares anymore. It takes 4 seconds of googling someone to find all of their personal info anyway these days.

Is that information that the website really needs to have? Is TotJO going to send me something in the mail or call me on the phone? I don't see why we have to give that info to register anyway. Not requesting it in the first place would solve the problem.

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18 Jan 2016 22:23 #222672 by Avalon
It's my experience that most people don't really pay attention to any online video/course that you ask them to pay attention to. They figure if they watch it, they can check the box, and completely forget anything that might have even slightly stuck in their minds. I saw it time and time again while I was in the military with our annual "general military training" courses on things like sexual assault, don't drink and drive... etc etc etc...

Things that can actually affect a person seem to not matter until they've already affect a person. I'm in an odd age group. I was one of those people who, growing up, got told literally every single day "Do not give your personal information out online!" My parents were terrified something would happen to me because of internet access, and my dad being a cop only made that worse. I can't tell you the number of times I would get some horror story about this girl or that kid who thought they were talking to someone their age only get end up getting kidnapped by some heathen a few weeks later. To this day, I retain a probably overly heightened alert level when it comes to my personal information and the internet. People cannot find my facebook profile unless they are a friend of a friend of mine, as just one example. Though this is more out of a desire to maintain personal privacy than anything. There are a grand total of 7... 8 people on this site who know my first name, maybe 4-5 of those know my first name and my age, and only 2-3 know my full name and age. And I knew them all well over a year before they got any of that information.

I tried explaining to one of our minor members the dangers of posting even tiny bits of information of themselves online a few weeks ago. My final job in the military trained me to deliberately look for the tiniest bits of information and, over the course of a few weeks, or even a month or more, put together a full picture of individuals. It came to the point where I would be able to say with confidence, an individual worked at a certain location from this time to this time, got their groceries here, lived at that address, had this many family members, went to this library, etc etc etc. Given the right starting point, I could easily put together small profiles still, if I really wanted to. I don't. It's tiring and time consuming.

Certain people out there do want to though! There are people out there who spend their entire days doing just that, and not for legal and proper reasons. And it's not just children who need to be concerned. Young men and women too can easily get targeted by the wrong person. Human trafficking and the sex slave industry is still painfully a thing, never mind just regular human labor slavery...

Now, for those of you wondering why the application requires such personal information to be given to the temple, it is because it is registered as a non-profit, religious, tax-deductible organization. If you go and try to ask for full, registered membership at any church in the United States, you would be required to provide the same information. The FAQ explains it further:

Contents of the application are processed by senior staff and kept confidential. Your information will not be distributed to third parties or non-senior members of the Order. We may, however, be required to send copies to government agencies with the authority to make such requests.

The ‘Digital Signature’ at the foot of the form is simply your full name typed out.

Another purpose of the application is for Texas State records. If you feel the calling to become a member of our Jediist Clergy and are a Licensed or Ordained Minister and wish to conduct civil ceremonies such as weddings, it is a legal requirement that your status be verifiable. This allows everyone involved (for example) in the ceremony of wedlock to be sure of its legality. You should check with a lawyer/attorney or other legal adviser about the legality of your status in your particular state/country.


As for the Oath, I, like Edan, don't particularly think the Simple Oath should require that information. Then again, I find it a bit unnecessary to be required... But that's an entirely different conversation all together.

Getting back on track, the simple answer is: "Unless asked by someone in official standing, do not give any personal information out." For you minors, that's Jestor and Edan. End of story. I don't want to be that person who tries to scare everyone into a submissive standing on the internet, but it's not a safe world out there... And honestly, not everyone who registers on the site may be doing so with good intentions. . . Please keep that in mind.

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18 Jan 2016 22:40 - 18 Jan 2016 22:42 #222681 by Exarchias
Replied by Exarchias on topic Why so clueless about internet safety?

Avalonslight wrote: It's my experience that most people don't really pay attention to any online video/course that you ask them to pay attention to. They figure if they watch it, they can check the box, and completely forget anything that might have even slightly stuck in their minds. I saw it time and time again while I was in the military with our annual "general military training" courses on things like sexual assault, don't drink and drive... etc etc etc...


Hello Avalonslight!
At first i wish to thank you for your thoughts
Maybe that you were said is true but I believe that video material are more easy material than text, more easy to be shared, and they can promote totjo in some cases. and video with audio of course can be helpful for older people, younger people, and people with limited sight.
Best Regards.
Robert.
Last edit: 18 Jan 2016 22:42 by Exarchias.

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