Attention council members (suggestions from those you lead)

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17 May 2021 18:52 - 17 May 2021 18:56 #360243 by River

Neaj Pa Bol wrote: One thing I would like to address for the moment is this.

Please do not think that this is not seriously being discussed nor will the answers to each question be done in 24 hours. I, like others, have full-time jobs, Management such as mine, etc, IRL, as to where I will not spam out an answer to anyone without being serious minded or sincere in a response. I ask that, yes, reply or give thoughts but patience is not being applied either. This can not and should not be looked at as an overnight address...

Let’s show some patience as Jedi should be to answer things....


This is good to know. It's much easier to have patience, for me at least, when I know that something is being addressed. As someone with no access to the upper forums, this is the only place I had any idea these concerns were being discussed. Maybe this goes along with transparency conversation; it would have been good to have some kind of official "this has been seen and is on our agenda, thank you" sort of thing.

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17 May 2021 19:17 #360245 by ZealotX

Simple answer, we have given many members opportunities to be involved...none of them are here any longer...those of us on the council and holding offices are the few that have managed to stay around...we may or may not be as active in the forums as those with less responsibility, but we are always watching things...I have been here 12 years myself...only 2 other active members have been here longer (maybe 3)...everything being brought up now, has been brought up before and tried before and failed before.


This was a great answer. In many cases, just hearing "we tried that" is very valuable for the people being led.

If I may, let's put it into the same terms as a regular job.

Although many jobs can be done by monkeys, many other jobs require special skills or knowledge. Part of the requirements should be loyalty to the Temple. How many months has this person been here? Have they served in other capacities before? Is there a track record?

Perhaps, somewhat of a middle ground could be that every central position is made by appointment and then that person has to list open spots where anyone can then serve in that department in the capacity of the job/volunteer posting. That person then gets credit for each month in that job and therefore the supervising central position can issue a recommendation/nomination for that person to be considered for a future appointment.

Strong organizations are hierarchies. If the pathway to the top is too easy/quick then the organization, as a whole, will be diluted to the point of nonexistence.

In the United States, every new administration (potentially every 4 years) looks at each appointed position and often times keeps the person in charge but can replace that person with a new appointment. The new appointment can open those dept positions back up or evaluate people for a time before deciding to keep them.

The council is like an administration. While it is natural for those in a position of ultimate responsibility to accept some blame, less blame will go around as long as everyone agrees on the system itself (like the US constitution). It's not just a statement who we are but how we run things. And every healthy system needs checks and balances.

I think Initiates should have jobs and/or tasks they can do and I'm very interested in what the Service Corp can do in this regard. But if the initiates have things they can do in order to prove themselves, then it would become a much easier decision when it comes to appointments and who can take on more. With that said, I see things getting better and that progress is all that matters as Rome wasn't built in a day.

So I think the answer to this question is that there must be quality over quantity. Our main focus has been on advancing Jedi knowledge, wisdom, and understanding; the mind of a Jedi. The heart of a Jedi is something everyone must find within. At the same time, I think the might of a Jedi, found in service, is something we should start to solidify and cultivate. And THEN we can create an organizational pathway to higher levels of service that will be fair and keep more people engaged without the same revolving door.
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17 May 2021 19:26 #360246 by River
This post was addressed to the Council, and I assume it was posted here so that the people who contributed to it would see and know that their concerns have been taken to the Council by Zero as he said he would. I'm confused as to why individual Councilors are addressing the concerns already, instead of us hearing from the Council as a whole. I would have thought the process would be more

-- Response 1: "Hi, I'm on the Council. I see this post. I'll bring it to the attention of the rest of the Council. Please be patient. Thank you."
-- Response 2 (eventually, when appropriate): "Hi, I'm a Councilor speaking on behalf of the Council. This post is now on our agenda. Thank you to all who contributed ideas for consideration. We will keep you updated. Please be patient with the process as we are all volunteers with busy lives."

If these comments and concerns and questions from Councilors are on behalf of the Council, it would be beneficial to know that. Something like "The Council is talking about xyz and we'd like further input. Here are our concerns and thoughts thus far. Please let us know what you think so we can consider the thoughts of temple members in our deliberations." If that isn't the case, if this is individuals speaking without the official backing of the body of the Council, then I think that should be made clear as well. Right now it feels like it could go either way and it's confusing to me. It's creating the cyclic and unproductive back and forth that's already been brought up as a known issue.

Regarding blame: it does stink that leaders are generally left holding the blame for things that go wrong. This seems to be the case in most any organization. It can't feel nice, and I wish the Council didn't experience it. On the other hand, it can't be taken personally and it can't be held on to. It's an unfortunate pitfall of being in a leadership position among humans and bitterness around it doesn't serve anyone. The idea of blame as it's been mentioned in this thread seems to have the weight of bitterness behind it. I hope there's a way we as a temple can move on from that.

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17 May 2021 19:30 #360247 by ZealotX

RyuJin wrote: In most organizations you don't have people quit shortly after taking office without even training someone to fill in for them...most of the folks we have allowed to take on some of these other offices discover how much time is needed to really commit or that they're way over their heads and they bail on us, leaving us to try and piece together what they were trying to do, then to fill the position again...those of us with multiple offices have them, not as some sort of greedy/selfish power grab, but as a substitute figure head until someone capable and willing comes along that won't run off the moment things get really tough and the hate mail messages start flying in....that all said, longevity is preferred because it shows true commitment...any idea how many thousands we have seen over the years that have come storming in all excited, rush through their training, then start making demands before eventually burning out and blaming us?


Unfortunately, I can imagine. And this answer makes perfect sense. I think people need positions in which they can serve but if they're new or even older initiates, they shouldn't be "head of ____". But being on a team? Yes, that can be mutually beneficial. They can contribute a talent, knowledge, or skill, without being overwhelmed by any burden of being responsible for a whole dept. I also see this improving and hopefully, with a new newsletter, others will see it as well ;)

I do think that "practicing" one's religion is important because it makes it more real to the person. Personal practice is great and is the cornerstone of Jediism. But I also think that if we can develop some additional corporate practices that showcase how we work in teams, how we can go out and do "missions", and serve in different capacities, I think we'll see that people need that too. And that it fulfills a need to feel more a part of something greater. And that will make some people stick around longer and that support for people actually appointed may help them stay longer too because they can delegate tasks more.

Delegation is key but you also have to trust the people you're delegating to.
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17 May 2021 19:37 #360248 by ZealotX

Br. John wrote: Who has been gone for months and is still showing as holding a position? I'll update the FAQ and set their status as Inactive.

If I'm forgetting an open position let me know. We need a System Administrator. Ren works too many hours at his paying job and does not have time to repair the site. We need someone who can work with a Linux Server and Joomla. It would be great if such an one is a member.


I would like to be on the Web team in an assistant position to Ren. If we get 2 or 3 such assistants we can track a central queue of website issues and each person can tackle one until completion.

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17 May 2021 19:55 #360249 by Br. John

ZealotX wrote:

Br. John wrote: Who has been gone for months and is still showing as holding a position? I'll update the FAQ and set their status as Inactive.

If I'm forgetting an open position let me know. We need a System Administrator. Ren works too many hours at his paying job and does not have time to repair the site. We need someone who can work with a Linux Server and Joomla. It would be great if such an one is a member.


I would like to be on the Web team in an assistant position to Ren. If we get 2 or 3 such assistants we can track a central queue of website issues and each person can tackle one until completion.


What is your experience with Linux web servers and with Joomla?

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18 May 2021 12:29 #360260 by Br. John

Br. John wrote: Who has been gone for months and is still showing as holding a position? I'll update the FAQ and set their status as Inactive.

If I'm forgetting an open position let me know. We need a System Administrator. Ren works too many hours at his paying job and does not have time to repair the site. We need someone who can work with a Linux Server and Joomla. It would be great if such an one is a member.


I should have said in this post that I will answer each question separately. I'll deal with them one at a time. The first issue is about persons still listed as holding positions when they have not been here for some time, and about open positions. Nobody has responded about positions held by absent persons. You're welcome to PM me if you don't want to post about that.

We have asked one Knight about being System Administrator (and fixing the site) and one member has volunteered to be an assistant.

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18 May 2021 15:29 #360271 by Edan

4. Almost everyone has mentioned either knight Edan or Master Rosalyn as being very deserving of some form of official recognition for all of their amazing work they do.


Thank you very much for the comments. However I would like to say that every member of Council is an active participant. Ros' and my work is visible by its nature, but there is nobody serving on Council right now who is not working. We are always in contact with each other, always aware of what is going on, nothing goes by without the notice of all of us. When I posted recently that anyone can come to any Councillor for support I meant it, we are all available.

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19 May 2021 18:11 #360299 by River
Is there a list of open positions anywhere? A link would be awesome if there is; I'm not finding it.

And if there's not, could there be?

It's tough to consider volunteering when I don't know what's needed.

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19 May 2021 20:19 #360303 by Edan
There will be, we are putting one together and we'll advertise as soon as we have a complete list

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